Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Single Shots 45-70 vers 45-110

Is there enough of a gain in performance for hunting to make the investment of having a sharps in 45-70 re-chambered to 45-110? By investment I mean dies, brass, and the gunsmith charges.
tom

If you have a rifle your contemplating rechambering, and if your rifle comes from Shiloh Sharps, C. Sharps or the Axtel Rifle Company, you should ask them about barrel twists first. Thus making sure that the barrel twist is compatable with the rechambered cartridge.

If your rifle is not from the three above companies, you should talk to the distributor that imports the rifle

Dies and Brass will cost more.

Shiloh Sharps says that 45-110 and the 45-120 will kick quiet a bit more Than the 45-70. And, advise against those two calibers if your shooting long strings of shots, or shooting silhouettes. I just read that in the Shiloh Sharps Company 2007 brochure.

Then, you will need to find out from the builder of your rifle, what bullet and what weight of charge, they recommend for the rechambered caliber. Just because it says 45-100, 45-110 or 45-120, that doesn't necessarily mean those charges are the charge weight you would want to use.

Shiloh Sharps recommends Goex powder, which I would assume they also mean loose powder, not pelletized powder, or black powder substitutes. That will give you another question to ask them about the other forms of Black powder available, those other than loose powder.

I just bought a Shiloh 1874 Sharps Hartford model in 45-70.

Bill

Tom,

The only reason to rechamber to .45-110 is if you are stuck on using black powder. And even then, the twist will be wrong. When the .45/90 and .45/110 were invented, the only way to increase ballistics, was to use more powder and decrease bullet weight. Thus they were originally loaded with lighter bullets, sometimes as light as 300 grs.

With smokeless powder, one can load a modern action past the pressure limits of the rifle, or until one cannot stand the recoil, Whichever comes first. A good strong action can come unbelievably close to the .458 Win Mag ballistics. And I can tell you now, that is more recoil than I can handle on a steady basis. YMMV.

A .45/70 with smokeless will easily exceed what a .45/110 with black is capable of. Trust me on this; loading a .45/110 with huge charges of smokeless, is someplace you don't want to go...

Thanks for the replies. I am not too concerned about recoil since I hunt with a 338wm. Of course the 338wm does have a recoil pad lol. I am more wondering if I loaded it with smokeless (since that is all I would use) if it would be any better for elk out to 200 yards. tom

BTW it is a taylor & company.

The 45-110 cartridge case is dimensionally similar to a 458 Lott sans belt. The originals were 1 1-20 pitch and stabilized a 525 grain bullet. The real performance of the big 45's was and is with bullets in the 500 grain and up category. The Winchester lever guns in the 110 range were "Express" rifles in that they were pitched for 300 grain bullets. The target single shots are usually a 1:18 pitch for the 550 grain bullets. Elk at 200 yards?? The 45-110 Sharps killed buffalo at 8-900 yards. You want to talk with Sharpsguy. He took 7 or 8 head of African plains game with a Shiloh 45-110 using GOEX Express and paper patched bullets in a 45-110.

I'm with Grasshopper on that one. I have a H&R Buffalo Classic that I got pretty seriously hammered by just this past week. It is a 45-70, and with 405 gr Remmys and a case full of Benchmark, ten shots was enough. That colour case hardened butt platedoes NOTHING to soften the blow. Coupled with a large amount of drop in the butt stock, it lets meknow I've touched one off. A 405 gr at 1950 - 2000 fps ought to put the hurt on more than just the shooter.

Tom,

Before I would seriously consider such a project, I would do two things....

1st: I'd read Ken Waters' treatise on the .45/120 (It's in Pet Loads ...)

2nd: I'd find someone with a .45/90 or .45/100/110 and con them into letting me shoot it.

GH

Pumpgun, I agree with Grasshopper on this one. I have a 45-110 that is more fun than a barrel of monkeys to shoot. However, IF you are going to only load smokeless, the 45-70 is just dandy. I personally do not consider either a 45-70 or especially a 45-110 to be a "short range" cartridge for hunting. You have a Taylor?? Use heavy (500grain) cast bullets and reloader 7. It will hit well and hard as far away as you could see the critter. Just learn the sights is all. I know one thing. You ARE gonna have fun.

Thanks gentlemen.

Next question. I notice that most if not all of the guys that shoot sharps here shoot cast bullets regardless if they use black powder or smokeless. What is the reason behind that?

tom

There is a recoil pad made by the PAST company that fits in front of your shoulder. This pad, filled with a gell-like materal greatly reduces the FELT recoil.

Here is the URL for the PAST recoil pad:

http://www.battenfeldtechnologies.com/past.html

Here is the URL for Limbsaver products and the Limbsaver recoil pad:

http://www.limbsaver.com/

Bill

It is probably 90% the tradition of the firearms, and 20% the quirkyness of the shooters.

Some shooters, like me, just enjoy rolling their own. Paper patching my bullets is something I am going to get into.

Then, I have about 1100 pounds of lead/alloy ingots. Which probably has quiet a bit to do with my shooting cast bullets.

Bill

Tom,
We shoot lead because it works, it's cheap, it's available, it's traditional, it looks good, it's homemade. Turn the question around and ask why would anyone shoot anything else?

Brent

Brent,
could be because i am lazy, or the fact that I cast so many fishing weights with my father growning up that I have no desire to melt anymore lead. lol. I do load my own ammo, but other than 38 ammo I only load jacketed bullets. I will however keep an open mind on the subject. And If you can convince me that lead kills better than jacketed bullets that would be another thing entirely. tom

Tom,
copper cannot do what lead can do, and that is shoot in my rifles as they were made to be shot. If you want to shoot copper, have at it. But lead is way undersold, esp in large caliber bp cartridges - which is all I will shoot anymore.

Brent

Tom, another reason is one that we actually give scant thought to. I have never heard of a barrel shot out by lead bullets and BP unless it was shot an ungodly amount in a very short time. Lead slugs are VERY kind to a bore. BP doesn't seem to have the high temps smokeless does and a much shorter duration of burn. How else could I be shooting a 130 year old rifle that hits the vital area reliably (once I figure out the load it likes)??