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I've killed plenty of elk with the standard calibers just fine, I also limited my shots with them. I don't with the 338.


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Allen: Mine were Douglas and Kreiger barrels, and one pre-64 M70, which was the least accurate, but still pretty good!

The custom barreled rifles were very accurate; I always found the round easy to get to shoot well.

One of the most surprising was an out-of-box Ruger that was very well-behaved;this was back when Rugers were known for,well, variable accuracy, but this was one of the good ones.Like the 375, the cartridge is a good shooter. So is the 340 Weatherby.




The 280 Remington is overbore.

The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Originally Posted by allenday
I'm constantly amazed at the quality of testimony given about the performance of cartridges by guys with little or no experience with same. I know guys around here, in the "Great State of Confusion", who shoot maybe one elk or one deer with a certain cartridge - and sometimes all they've managed to kill is paper - but they still think they've got it all figured out anyway. Just incredible!

AD


Good point Allen but keep in mind alot of us hunt with friends that carry other cartridges and we can draw conclusions from their experiences while we are on safari. For example, I've never killed anything with a 300Wtby but I have the dies and have loaded for two different rifles owned by hunting buddies. I have also watched several head of game killed by my friends using their Weatherbys. Does that count as experience? I've also been in on 15+ black bear kills over the years, some of them over hounds and with a variety of cartridges. Does that count as experience? I watched a good friend of mine shoot a 600lb bull moose in WY with his '06 from a dirt road, kinda boring really. Does that count as experience? I watched another moose shot by another friend using his 338WM out of his camper door, does that count? (he hit him right in the neck bone, instant dirt nap).

As Elmer would say, "Hell, I was there!"

Me too!

MtnHtr





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Accuracy wise my fingings with the 33's has been quite the opposite of AD's and this does include the Win Mag.

Interesting how we all experience such differing things. And I only add this not to dispute what Allen said but just to mention my findings and how oddly opposite they are.

But, for me in working with the 338 WM, 338 WSM, 338/06, .340, 338/378 KT, the 338/378, the RUM and the Lapua I've personally found each and every one to be some of the easiest rounds to get to perk I've worked with.

Sub inch and normally in the .5 to .75" is the norm if the rig is put tother in an intelligent manner and the shooter is up to the task.

For me a good tube and a 33 is about model perfect when it comes to getting good accuracy.

Just my thoughts

Make it your best day!

Dober


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Mark,

I only own one 338, it has been the easiest,most user friendly cartridge I have ever loaded for. One of those few that shoot
MOA from 180's to 250's. I tuck in a sand bag between me and the rifle when shooting it off the bench that helps a lot.




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I bought a Stainless Model 70 338 four years ago that was a complete POS, it shot patterns instead of grups. I'm talking 3" five shots as about the best it ever did. Winchesters quality control missed out on it big time, for instance the bolt face was never machined.
A new stock, #4 Kreiger, and a bunch of good gunsmithing and now it shoots with the most accurate stuff I own. The first five after I got it back was 5/8s at 100 yards
I have another in a Ruger 77 that's 20 plus years old that shoots almost as well, but only with maximum loads and 250 gr Noslers. I haven't found anything else it likes.



















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My XCR has been super easy to load for... everything shoots, so far, and a couple loads REALLY shoot.

I cannot wait to try it on something. I have help dissect 3 elk, I believe, killed with a .338. All were decisive kills, for what that's worth...

-jeff


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Allen,

If I had the funds I'd get him to put a rifle together for me as well. I've read most of your posts and others about the work he does.

Nice rifles. Whether they are in 300 Win Mag, or 338 Win Mag, or the 270 your using.

Good luck this year,
Joel Babcock

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Originally Posted by Brad
Thing about these discussions is that many fail to acknowledge EVERY decision in favor of one cartridge/rifle over another is a compromise including the 338 WM.

It's all well and good to proclaim the 338 WM is a "Wonderful And Mighty" cartridge. I've probably got as much or more experience with the round as many expressing undying love here. However, the 340 Wby is all that and more... and the 338 RUM is all that and more squared, and the 378 Wby is more than any of them, and...

Using the logic of some expressed here, why not use the 338 RUM at least?

Course the answer is recoil and rifle weight. In that line of thinking, I'd also wager most of the 338's mentioned on this thread come in 8.75 - 9lbs all up. A 9lb 338 with a decent tube is a pussycat to shoot IME.

Were I inclined anymore to carry an 8.5 lb rifle it'd be a 338 WM since it seems pointless to use a heavy rifle in a "standard" chambering... might as well get a little extra thump for the effort of carrying it.

Since I like 7.5lb rifles and can't shoot a 7.5 lb 338 consistently well I make my cartridge compromise differently and use a 30-06. I just haven't seen enough real difference between the two. Wreck the lungs and chit dies. And, since a real hunting rifle is carried more than shot, I'll take the 7.5 lb 30-06 thank you!

Would add, the 30-06 is a Wonderful And Mighty round in its own right and really a lot more cartridge than needed for most of the game it's used for (WT deer).

It's nice to have choices, lets just be honest about all the variables...



Here, here! Too many people dismiss the .30-06 as old and weak. Not hardly.

Expat


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Yeah, it's true! As the various magnums have come out, the 30-06 has somehow gotten weaker. It's pretty funny. I would imagine, it could be really confusing to a new shooter. I mean, if a 300 magnum or super duper magnum kills deer.. then a 30-06 must somehow not kill them as well, right? Like maybe it doesn't make a hole all the way through or something?

I killed my first deer with a 30-06 and then decided it was too MUCH gun for how and where I hunt deer...

-jeff


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Originally Posted by allenday


Accuracy and velocity issues: The 338 Win. Mag. isn't always an easy cartridge to get to shoot well - not as easy as cartridges like the 308, 30-06, 270, 300 Winchester, or 375 H&H are - and some 338s will either not shoot well at all, or else they'll only shoot well with one bullet. Some 338s are also very slow, and struggle to make much over 2600 fps. with 250s, 2750 with 225s, or even 2850 with 210s. I've owned a number of 338s of various makes that struggled in all those areas, and some of the worst shooting, slowest 338s I've ever owned that had barrels that fouled like crazy were original pre-64 Model 70 'Alaskans', so the old pre-64 70 wasn't and isn't necessarily the sacred object that we're so often led to believe that it was.

BUT, a good 338 Win. Mag. with a good barrel and chamber CAN demonstrate incredible accuracy, and any 338 that's accurate with a variety of bullets, unfussy, consistent, AND fast should be shot sparingly at the range, and reserved mostly for actual hunting. My #1 338 Win. Mag. shoots like a varmint rifle with 210 and 250 gr. Nosler Partitions as well as 225 North Forks and 225 Barnes TSXs, plus it's very fast, and I don't shoot it much anymore. I save it for hunting and practice with other rifles for the most part......

AD


Allen,

I've been lucky on the accuracy isssue with the 338's I've had.

The 3 Sako's have all been very easy to load for, fast & accurate.

The Kimber 89 that I have has never been fired so I can't attest to it's capabilities.

Here's an example of one of the Sako's.

MM

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Britt-to my way of thinking a Hawkeye in a Bansner and cut to 23" would/could be about model perfect. Add a 6x36 Leo with the LR in it and rock on.

Grab some 210 TSX's and go forth and fill up an ark!

I'd be about astounded if didn't bug hole about right off.

Dober


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I don't have a 338 but did some years ago but it now is a 340 which is not a wee group shooter but has good accuracy.

But I've reloaded for my buddy's Sako 338 for nie on two decades now. He shoots everything with the 210 Nos Part and IIRC IMR 4831 to get right to 3000 fps. It's maybe a 1.25" load. Anyway, we were talking last year about how he has taken somewhere in the vicinity of 13 head of game with the same number of shots in the last 8 eight years or so including a mule deer in the Bob at agout 400 yds. The one time he needed to shoot again was in Alberta where a bullwinkle took 2 or 3 250gr Nos Part's of Fed Premium (he wanted a heavier bullet for the moose) before he decided to amble over into the swamp and lay down.

He's sold on his 338 along with his Rem Ti 260. That's basically his battery as he's not a looney at all but just loves to hunt.

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There's no question that the 338 Win. Mag. CAN be incredibly accurate. I have two matching custom 338 Win. Mag. rifles in the safe, both with 1-10" Kreiger bbls. that shoot like varmint rifles with a variety of premium bullet loads.

I've had others that shot well too, including a Ruger 77 that I reworked and bedded myself, as well as a 1982 Model 70 that I also reworked and bedded. For stock factory rifles, those two were exceptional guns, and around 1987, when Remington came out with their annual 'Classic' in 338 Win., I picked one of those up, screwed the metal into an H-S stock, worked up a hot 210 Nosler handload that shot into an inch, and then went out and killed elk with it. Those were great rifles, and stupidly, I traded them off years ago.........

Others have been much more whimsical, and not nearly as forgiving. I had a custom 338 Win. Mag. made some 16 years ago that only shot well with Hornday 225s and acceptably well with Hornady 250s. It wouldn't shoot any other bullet well at all.

Some of the other 338s I've owned didn't shoot well with anything!

AD

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Rifles are such a crap shoot (no pun... bad pun...). Some shoot like crap.

I've had box-stock factory rifles, like my XCR, that you just stick ammo in 'em and go shoot great groups. I've had semi-custom rifles that were a real PITA to get to shoot. Sure makes you appreciate the good ones!

One of my "good 'uns" is a 7mm-08 Mountain Rifle LSS. I've never really bonded with it, for some reason, but I can't exactly sell off a rifle that is THAT light and shoots THAT well right out of the box, now can I... It looks like my 12-year-old daughter may adopt it as her own come next season. This season ended up getting written off due to pre-teen hormonal surges; this spring when she needed to be shooting with me, she was such a superfreak that there was just no way I was putting a gun in her hands! Wow. Who knew. Anyway, it'll make a great gun for a younger person; moderate recoil and light up front and very accurate. Glad I didn't sell it or, as I almost did, rebarrel it with a very heavy barrel and turn it into a target gun.

I don't think I've ever traded off or sold a "shooter", except a Savage Tactical .308 that I just had no use for. But then I'm a young man at age 42, still plenty of opportunity, knock on wood, to make mistakes! :-)

-jeff

Last edited by Jeff_Olsen; 09/26/07.

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I have a Howa 1500 in .338 that gave me fits for some time. I replaced the Tupperware stock with a laminated Boyds JRS, then played with various bedding options before arriving at a full-bedded solution. What REALLY made the difference in this rifle, however, was the discovery that it truly preferred near max loads. Groups shrank from 2.5" to <1" when I got within a grain or two of max. (I'd been trying to work up .338-'06 level loads). Subsequent discussions with knowledgable folks have reinforced my discovery. Apparently, my experience isn't at all unique.

But when it's all done and perking properly...how sweet it is!

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The other day, I was in the gunshop, and someone handed me a .338 RUM cartridge, factory loaded, to check out. I shook it and there was still room for more powder in there. What is WRONG with them people?

(My .338 likes to run hot, too)

-jeff


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The answer is .375H&H ,up load it or down-load it!

What was the question again?

Bob

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I just read thru this whole discussion, since I am a faithful 338 man. When I was younger I read everything that I could get my hands on that was written by Elmer Keith. He was a big proponent of the .33 caliber rifle.

A few years later, I decided it was time that I go elk hunting before I got too old and decrepit. I knew I was going to use a 338 and bought the first stainless rifle I'd ever owned, a Ruger MKII with the boat paddle synthetic stock. It shot decent groups, but beat me up so bad that I almost gave up on Elmer's beloved 338.

Then one day I ran across a Remington 700 in a gun shop. I decided to try it and couldn't trade off that Ruger fast enough. I'm still not sure what model this Remington is, it's got a tupperware stock, is ADL configuration, stainless metal work with a very rough finish. I mounted a Leupold 3-9x compact on it and never looked back.

This Remington is a pussycat compared to the Ruger, and even better since I swapped out the recoil pad for one of the new sorbathane pads. All I've ever shot in are Noslers, 200 gr BTs for deer and 250 gr Partitions for elk. Even though the Remington is a lot lighter than the Ruger, it's much more pleasant to shoot. I think the poor stock design on the Ruger with it's tiny hard rubber butt pad was the culprit.

I finally was able to go chase elk in Idaho in '93, I was unsuccessful but had the time of my life. A broken ankle, bad knees, a few surgeries, a divorce and a layoff have kept me from going back. But I've been using that Remington 338 for Kansas and Arkansas whitetails ever since, and killed between 45-50 with it. I haven't had to bloodtrail one yet. I can't say the same for deer shot with lesser calibers, I nearly lost the biggest deer of my life (325=350 # on the hoof) after putting a 130 grain 270 bullet thru it's lungs.

There is definitely less bloodshot meat with the 338 than with the 270 or other fast movers. A lot of that is probably due to bullet construction.

I have a lot of rifles now, but when deer season rolls around the 338 comes out of the safe and gets shot a time or two to check zero, then kills a deer or two for the freezer.

Last edited by Warhawk; 11/27/07.

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I just read through this entire thread and cannot really add much, except to say that my latest rifle just now being finished is a .375 H&H P-64 with a stubby bbl. built for packing in Grizzly country and I have a 9.3x62 being built on a FN action for a general purpose BC rifle.

I have sold off a WHACK of guns and doubt that I will buy any more, I now have 25 big game rifles plus five more specialized ones. They range from .264WM to .45-70, but the largest number of rifles in one chambering I own are .338WMs, five of the twelve I have owned during the past 40 years.

IF, gawd forbid, horrible thought, I HAD to choose ONE rifle/cartridge for all my hunting here in BC, it would be my favourite P-64-.338WM using 250 NPs, absolutely no question.

I just spoke with D'arcy Echols about one of his Legend stocks for this rifle and intend to put one on it in the coming spring; this is as close to perfection as I ever expect to get.

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