Home Forums Lever Action Central Big Bore Levers 444 and 450

i'm trying to decide on a new gun... i want a short, light, handy rifle for short-range @55-whompin' (under 200 yards). i handload, so ammo variety/availability is a non-issue. i abhor brakes and ports, so anything that comes w/ that stuff is out.

i'm thinking a stainless/laminate marlin 450 will fill the bill, but the local dealer tells me the 444 is a superior cartridge. he has both on hand, so it probably doesn't make much difference to him which way i go.

suggestions? thoughts?

If I were going .45 cal, it would be a .45/70.

I would got with the 22-inch barrel - it tames the muzzle flip as well as a compensator, and is a whole lot less noisy.

My .444 has a 24-inch barrel and settles on target like a fly on honey. A hunting partner liked it so much he bought a new 1895 in .45/70 and worked up some MOA loads for deer with 300-gr XTP at 1825 fps.

Obviously debatable. The 45-70 is more powerful and can shoot just as "flat" as the 444. What might make someone consider the 444 as superior might be a detraction to someone else.
I don't think there is an XTP that will work in the 45-70. Did you mean the Hornady .458" 300 grain hollow point, Item #4500? That bullet has worked well in my Marlin 1895 for 30 years.

I have 450 Marlin in a XLR and I love it. I understand many people have a real attachment and feel the 450 is is the same class� so be it.

That said� I believe the 450 is top of the class and much better than the 444.

I also hand load and there are no problems there�

For what it�s worth

I like the shorter guide guns and 45/70 is available in 3 levels of destruction for times when stuff happens and you don't have time to reload a box or three.

That said, given the options, I'd take the 450 because it will do anything the 444 will do with a bigger and heavier bullet AND it's harder to find the short barreled 444.

so... what is the performance difference between 45-70 and 450 marlin?

what i am hearing is the 450 is probably at least as powerful as the 444, and probably more powerful? meaning same weight bullets at more velocity?

thanks for the help, fellas.

I've much experience with all 3. I like the 444SS with 22" barrel the best. The ss/laminated Marlins suck. Heavy, shiney, and unwieldy are not preferred attributes.....

The 444SS will easily take deer/black bear/elk with the proper load. And contrary to what some might tell you, it is a might flatter shootin' than the others......

Should have added, the Speer 270gr Gold-dot and 300gr Uni-cor put any XTP to shame in the 444..........

I have been using a 444 since 1993 and love it. I shoot the Hornady 265's exclusively and never felt I needed to go bigger. I use to argue myself that it was better then the 45-70 with people such as Jackfish on another site. Now I see that they are different but both are great. I am actually looking for a 45-70 now to fool around with and hunt with. I do agree with the above, if going to the 45 caliber choice, I would opt for the 45-70

i thought the 450 marlin was just an 'improved' 45-70? if so, why would you rate the 45-70 ahead of the 450?

With a modern firearm such as a Marlin 1895, there is no real difference. The 45-70 has a much larger selection of factory ammo, loading data and even with bullets of same weight and bullet design will beat the 450 in velocity. Again I love the 444 marlin but if going 45 cal, go with one that has proven itself for 100+ yrs. Components such as cases, dies, etc are also readily available

What he said. I can goto Gander Mt and buy plinking, deer, and "long range" loads off the shelf in 45/70; only bear/long range stuff for the 450.

If I had the $$ I'd have at least 1 of each along with a 35, 375, and a 356 for good measure.

i would take the 45-70 components as far as price and availibility are much better than the 450 and their is no difference in power.....infact you will prolly hit uncomfortable to shoot before you run out of power in those light lil carbines......would take the 45 over the 444 just cause the huge variety of bullets for the 45 be it the 450 or 45-70......alot of 444 bullets are meant for 44 mag velocities.

Bullet selection is everything.......

sold!

i'll be in the denver area next week, so i'll do a little price and comparison shopping at bass pro while i'm there and either order what i want when i get back, or pick it up while i'm there if they've got enough different examples that i can make an educated decision...

I've got a Winchester "Timber Scout" in 444,
and a Winchester "Timber" in 450, I also have 2 rifles in 45/70.
The 45/70 is alot easier to feed with more choices available.
The 450 is impressive, but gets painful quick to both the shoulder and wallet.
Honestly the 444 gets the nod more often when heading out to the deer stand.

I have a 444P and like it alot. If I was going 45 caliber and reloading I'd go with the 45-70.

When both the 45-70 Gov't and 444 Marlin are loaded to their potential in Marlin lever guns, given equal sectional density, the 45-70 Gov't will drive a bullet of similar construction and configuration at least as fast as the 444 Marlin, and given equal weight, the 45-70 Gov't will drive a bullet of similar construction and configuration significantly faster than the 444 Marlin. Hence, the 45-70 Gov't will shoot just as "flat" (as in equivalent trajectory) as the 444 Marlin while delivering more energy to the target and more recoil to the shooter.

Name the 444 Marlin load for a Marlin lever gun you believe shoots "a might flatter" than the 45-70 and it is likely I have shot a 45-70 load or I can likely find a 45-70 load that shoots as flat or flatter.

Over the last 50 years I've owned many a gun, including two different .45-70s, but never a .450. I'm not a collector but like to work up loads and hunt, hunt, hunt! I tend to keep only the guns that feel right for me and that I enjoy shooting. My favorite .45-70 was a Ruger No 1, but even that one didn't get used much, so I no longer own a .45-70. My choice is .444 and I have both versions - a Marlin .444 w/1.5-4.5x Nikon Monarch scope and and Marlin .444 Outfitter w/XS ghost ring sights. I lived in Colorado for many years and frequently go back. Whether there or in the SE Oklahoma woods (bigfootville) one of my .444s is along.

The .45-70 is a great round with lots of history but the .444 is still my favorite. Just get the one you like and gon't look back.

I would like to see that,also!

Jayco