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My dogyard has gone through several periods where the dominance hierarchy shifts and that is always accompanied by gashes and deep puncture wounds. I used to irrigate with a 100 mL syringe (without needle) and 5-10% povidone iodine and then pack the wound with one application of nitrofurazone. I have also, in a pinch, just packed it with the nitrofurazone without irrigating. I have never seen an infection set in after using that stuff. I would be tempted to use it on myself in the field, although it is not for human use. You get nitrofurazone at the feed store.

My reasoning for not staking the dogs separately at home is that I'd rather them work out their differences at home than on the trail.

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BC30Cal- I apprecieate your comments and am planning on adding the suggested supplies to my kit.

Ironbender- I've had many first aid classes as they have always been required by my different employers over the years.

Thanks to all for your input. It is good to plan ahead and not need it rather than the alternative.

Mark


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i used to carry sutures and syill have pletny of access to them, but like said above without adequate numbing its not any fun. I carry steri strips and have the extra adhesive that is applid to the skin to help it stick better as well as dermabond which is essentially medical grade super glue. if super gluing a laceration always make sure it is really clean and always leave a small opening ( 1/8" or so)at the end to promote drainage of anything. I have only had to glue myself up once and had the opportunity to saok it nightly and never had any problems, just covered it while hunting during the day

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A few years ago,I cut myself gutting an elk. Back at camp I had 2# fishing line and some big needles for sewing up livestock which prove to be very dull. I put 4 stitches in my hand without any deadening except Jack Daniels inside and out. The pain isn't a bad as seeing your blood leaking out
Get your doctor to write a scrpit for a half dozen and then you can by suture kits at any medical supply house. We have two here in Colorado Springs.

I carry them now and I have a BIG first aid kit.

A second option is to get a few hypodermic needles that 2# fishing line will slide through. The hypodermics will poke through pretty easily and you can then feed the line through, pull the needle out and tie off. If you can't get it sewed within 4-6 hours, it probably won't do you any good

Buy a bottle of Providine or Iodine wash from some livestock supply company. Infection is about the most dangerous problem you will have.

As for kidney stones I now carry a few Dilaudid, Motrin and muscle tranquilzers. They all work in different ways according to the Emergency Room doc and you can take them all at once to releive the pain enough to get to the hopsital I haven't tried it yet as I have been stone free for 11 months now


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Originally Posted by saddlesore
A few years ago,I cut myself gutting an elk. Back at camp I had 2# fishing line and some big needles for sewing up livestock which prove to be very dull. I put 4 stitches in my hand without any deadening except Jack Daniels inside and out. The pain isn't a bad as seeing your blood leaking out


SS,

You're a tough ole hombre! (grin)

Happy Thanksgiving,

MtnHtr




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+1 on that, unless its gushing out I would rather watch it bleed...


Hunt hard, kill clean, waste nothing and offer no apologies.

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You can be a tough hombre, just be smart.

Fishing line is asking for infection, and tears skin easily.

I sewed a buddy up with fishing line. He insisted and then thought I did such a fine job he did not go to the doc after we returned to civilization. The cut was roughly 1.5" long in the heel of his palm, and I treated with peroxide while I stitched.

He is one damn tough dude. Or was until an infection set in and he waited to go to the ER. And waited. He almost lost his hand and was hospitalized for 2 weeks before she was all said and done.

The sight of his hand opened up like a suitcase to drain put the fear of the big man upstairs in me.

Thanks for the tips, I'll include them in my pack. Follow the doc's advice, and take infection seriously.


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Peroxide is not a good disenfectant. That is why I mentioned the provodine/iodine.
I have sewed up quite few horses with fishing line . It works fine, IF you watch the site for infetcion. Note that I stated infection was the biggest problem. In an emergebcy, you use what you have on hand. Note, I have suture kits now. Years ago you could not get them.


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I am a physician, and I've gone on several one to two week hunting trips, and I've obsessed over every single shred of gear I carried on my back. With that said, on the last trip I had the following:
1. Vial of local anesthesia with appropriate syringes
2. Nylon suture swaged on a straight needle (Keith), not needing instruments to suture
3. Povodine-Iodine swabs,
4. Bandage material
5. Oral Antibiotics/Pain Meds/Allergy meds/eye drops
6. Toradol injectible (non narcotic analgesia)
8. Sterile Gloves
9. Derma-bond (sterile superglue)
10. Duct tape (a myriad of uses)
Thank God, I've never had to use anything beyond the bandages/duct tape on foot issues. I'm not proposing everyone needs all this stuff, but they are my tools of the trade, and I like to have the option of using them.
Back when I had my trauma training, we weren't allowed to suture any wound older than 12 hours for fear of infection, and we would let it heal by "secondary intention". Actually we were so 24/7 busy that when a wound came in 12 hours old, we jumped for joy and put a nurse on debridement/cleanup and on to the next!. The 12 hour rule was flexible though, depending on the location and condition of the wound. Now that I specialize in the Head/Neck, I would close just about anything that I could clean properly. Antibiotics and great regional blood flow (plus cosmetic considerations) make this possible in this area.
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docbd.
How can I get some Toradol? When I go to the ER for kidney stone. They give me Duladid (sp)and Toradol. One alone won't do it. But they always have to check for kidney function before I get the toradol whcih is sometimes a nhour or so. That is a long hour.

Our kits contain about the samething .Got the local anesthesia from a neighbor doctor


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Saddlesore you need a prescription.

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Saddlesore,
I think you would need to get a vial from an MD (my Anesthesia Dept. uses it alot as an immediate post operative pain reliever, and it's impressive). As SubDoc said, it's perscription only. Good point on the kidney function, also! A kidney stone must be a crusher if Dilaudid won't do it alone. When my disk herniated back in '04 (cervicle), I got a shot of Dilaudid in the ER, and lights out!

Last edited by docdb; 11/25/07.
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docdb-

How do you use the dermabond? Do you apply it and then use butterflies or steri-strips (not listed in your kit) to hold the wound open so that the glue gan set?

Thanks,

Mark


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I've only used it in surgery, and there, approximate the wound edges usually with a well placed deeper layer of suture. This wouldn't be possible in the field, so I think you would rely on the glue to fill the wound. Obviously, if bleeding is brisk, the glue won't work. I neglected to mention the steristrips (and benzoin, a skin adhesive).
Don

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I've thought through the possibilities also being an anesthetist but as docdb mentioned, space and weight, are always critical.

I have however settled on some benzoin-alcohol skin preps with Super Glue, two rolls of elastic bandages, Torodol, as mentioned and one other product you may find interesting which I carry on big game trips and while bird hunting.

I figure the little cuts etc. will have to take care of themselves; it's the big, open wound from whatever cause that may be life-threatening for which I carry a product called Quickclot by Z-medica (www.z-medica.com) It's a 3.5 oz packet that is an adsorbant hemostatic agent. It simpley pulls water of the plasma to itself allowing the clotting factors, platelets, etc to concentrate initiating rapid clotting even in hemorragic situations. The research on this product has been interesting and dramatic to say the least. One of the surgeons I work with and who is also an outdoor type says he wouldh't hesitate to use it even in the ER should the "right" circumsances occur - it's not on most hospital formularies as it's niche is most certainly emergency situations and thus may be found in some ambulances. It's a 1-2-3- step process and just may save someone's or your dogs life.

Check out the website; they used to have some of the research their and anecdotal info that was very interesting.

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Saddlesore-

In anesthesia, we use Toradol (ketorolac) by the gallon, literally, in a years time; it's one of the most dramatic and effective non-narcotic analgesic going and I can speak from personal experience too.

Gdv

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I use the glue alot too, mostly cosmetically. It won't close a "wet" or bleeding wound very well or hold on a deep one alone. It mostly replaces the simple interrupted sutures on smaller incisions after a deep cuticular layer is in place. It does work great for paper cuts and dry skin cracks though wink smile

Last edited by UtahLefty; 11/26/07. Reason: typo


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www.redflarekits.com

While were on the subject does anyone have any other online suppliers for the equipment? I found redflare on a search and have been pretty happy with their service so far.

Also is anyone else using a coagulant such as quick clot or traumadex?


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Super glue and duct tape accompany me.

Quick clot is a great idea for sure.

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I also carry steri-strips.


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