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I know this is a little extreme and I am surely not a "Rambo" wannabe but, does anyone have a suture kit? Recently my bird dog received sutures on his leg and I watched as the vet did the "sewing." It was rather simple and I thought that if your buddy had a real bad gash that required a little more than a few butterfly bandaids that it wouldn't be all that difficult. I found some sutures on the net and was wondering if anyone had an internet source for med supplies that they liked.
Mark
"It's not the arrow, it's the Indian."
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Super glue and butterflies are always in my kit...
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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I keep a pretty complete minor surgery and medical kit in my truck. In my "survival kit" in my main pack I do have a couple sterilized instruments and some suture.
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I guess this begs the question of what size of a cut is too long/big for butterfly's and superglue?
Mark
"It's not the arrow, it's the Indian."
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When I was little I watched my Grandad sew himself up with a fishook and line after numbing his hand in the icefishing hole. I'm not sure what pound test it was, but I'm guessing there are probably better ways to close a laceration.
If you have any friends in the Nat'l Guard their medics can usually get their hands on the real stuff.
SD
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I'm not a doctor but I do have medical training as a respiratory therapist and I work in the ER and ICU. One thing to consider about suturing up a laceration is your ability to clean out the wound first. If you suture shut a dirty wound you are just asking for a serious infection that can spread to the bloodstream if you do not get medical attention for several days (such as getting a bad cut on the first day of a weeklong pack in hunt).
It is better to leave a cut open and put clean bandages on it, pressure if necessary to stop bleeding. If it is bad enough to require immediate suturing, you need to make an effort to get to a hospital. Just a little advice; I had thought about the suture kit myself before.
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I put a couple dental floss sutures in my leg about 20 years ago. I was geeting an elk out and fell on some sharp shale. Did the trick. About tens years later I did a head plant into a ski tip and layed open my eye lid. It was a bit*h skiing off the mountain with blood running into my eye. When I got back to the cabin my wife patched me up with butterfly's. She wanted to take me into the ER for some sutures but that was the last place I wanted to be on new Year's Eve, not to mention the 2 hour drive.
All in all, I thing the butterfly's, siper glue and duct tape are the best bet. The risk of infection is greater with sutures.
I also patched up my lab's sliced leg with a surgical stapler. This is probably the safest option if the glue, butterfly's etc. aren't enough.
Ed T
Ed T
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Mr. MarlinMark:
As one who has had the dubious distinction of having some stitches put in without freezing, I can�t say I recommend the practice, cause it isn't pleasant.
I am an Occupational First Aid attendant at work, and we use a product called Steri-Strips if we can get them, as opposed to the Johnsons� Butterfly bandage, as the Steri-Strips stick better. We�ve found that a product called �Friar�s Balsam� helps any self adhering bandage to stick better, especially on hands which can sweat Butterflys off in short order sometimes.
You asked about what requires stitches. For us, any laceration that is 1� or more long or is across a joint, like a knuckle and is �full thickness of skin� that is through the layers, requires us to ship the injured worker to Emergency for stitches. The most important thing is to really clean out the wound before suturing, and that can hurt more than the stitches. Yes, again the banged up voice of experience here. We use sterile water for cleaning out the wound, but I�ve had Emergency nurses use sterile water and a scrub brush on me��
While I do carry a suture kit that a friend got from the local OR, I pray never to have to use it on myself. Good on you for thinking ahead though.
All the best,
Dwayne
The most important stuff in life isn't "stuff"
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Excellent replies, thank you all.
BC30Cal- I will look into stocking my kit with Steri-Strips and check out the Friar's balsam as well.
Keep the replies coming. I think this is a topic that we all can learn from experience.
Mark
"It's not the arrow, it's the Indian."
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gives me the shudders. my best pard added one to his kit back when we were guiding together, azzwipe had new toy syndrome to the max.
all he could talk about in the tent at night was how he was ready to stitch me up should I get cut open!
I got sorely tempted to run a knife blade across his thigh, so he could get it outa his system.
He finally got over it, if it's still in his kit he doesn't mention it.
But we each have a med first aid kit that has the stapler in it now.
But like Cooper said bout $700 and a 30-06, there ain't much super glue, duct tape and antibiotics won't fix.
"This ain't dress rehearsal....it's the life you get to live, make it a good one."
TEAMWORK = a bunch of people doing what I say
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Thought I should chime in as well. I am a doc, and I can tell you that for most wounds suffered in the field, the best way to treat them is to irrigate them out, leave them open, and apply a clean bandage, replacing when necessary. Very few wounds truly require closure, unless you are concerned about a scar. In the field, the main concern is infection, as mentioned above, and as one of my old vietnam era surgical professors used to say, the surest way to get a wound infected is to close it. This allows the bacteria a closed space to fester.
If you were to carry anything for wound treatment, I would recommend pressure bandages with gauze, and ace wraps to cover the dressing, and keep clean. A filter or iodine tablets for clean water, and a splint for extramity wounds.
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Mr. MarlinMark:
As one who has had the dubious distinction of having some stitches put in without freezing, I can�t say I recommend the practice, cause it isn't pleasant.
I am an Occupational First Aid attendant at work, and we use a product called Steri-Strips if we can get them, as opposed to the Johnsons� Butterfly bandage, as the Steri-Strips stick better. We�ve found that a product called �Friar�s Balsam� helps any self adhering bandage to stick better, especially on hands which can sweat Butterflys off in short order sometimes.
You asked about what requires stitches. For us, any laceration that is 1� or more long or is across a joint, like a knuckle and is �full thickness of skin� that is through the layers, requires us to ship the injured worker to Emergency for stitches. The most important thing is to really clean out the wound before suturing, and that can hurt more than the stitches. Yes, again the banged up voice of experience here. We use sterile water for cleaning out the wound, but I�ve had Emergency nurses use sterile water and a scrub brush on me��
While I do carry a suture kit that a friend got from the local OR, I pray never to have to use it on myself. Good on you for thinking ahead though.
All the best,
Dwayne
Steri-strips, friars and a pressure dressing are the way to go. Was a medic for 26 years in the CF. If we sutured somebody in the bush, then they required antibiotics. Plus the need to freeze prior to sewing, just too many variables there. If it is a deep enough laceration to suture there are tendons and ligaments that could be involved, esp on the hands which is most likely where a hunter/fisherman is going to cut themselves. Even closing a wound with steri-strips probably needs to be seen by an ER, but at least you can't screw up the steri-strips.
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Great info. I like the idea of just irigating and dressing. I sure don't want to close something up and have a greater chance of making it worse than better. I'll carry some steri strips and the friars.
So, the friar's is applied to the area that you want the steri strips to stick to? It aids in keeping them stuck? Do I have that right?
Mark
"It's not the arrow, it's the Indian."
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I have carried Steri-Strips for many years, on advice from "the Cherub" a former outpost nurse in the Yukon and NWT, whom happens to be married to me. I have occupational first-aid training and also carry gauze pads, Tensors, and duct tape which can close any wound I get and with pressure, I can control haemorrage as well.
I had 12 stitches put in my scalp when I rolled my car into the local police station as a youth, no big deal, it hurts, but, isn't in the league of kidney stones whcih make even a broken leg seem mellow. My objection to this IS potential infection and that is far more frightening in remote wilderness than scarring or an open,,clean wound.
I think that a simple approach to bush first aid is best, overall and have two kits which cover everything. Strong painkillers are more useful than a suture kit and extra Telfa pads and big heel bandages are what I seem to use most.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Kutenay
If you are blessed with kidney stones like I am, you've learned that the actual pain of them is tolerable as it comes in cycles. What is not tolerable to me is the muscle contractions.
I hope you always carry meds for both muscle relaxants and pain relief.
I do not always have them on all my "local" trips, where I'm accessed to the hospital, but if I leave on foot, I always have 2 bottles...
You got my PM I assume.
Jeff
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Yup, sorry I forgot to reply, trust the parcel of goodies will be satisfactory.
Nope, had them once, toughed it out for a couple weeks and then had the old-fashioned method used to remove them, very nasty and worse than most of the seven fractures I have had.
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Great info. I like the idea of just irigating and dressing. I sure don't want to close something up and have a greater chance of making it worse than better. I'll carry some steri strips and the friars.
So, the friar's is applied to the area that you want the steri strips to stick to? It aids in keeping them stuck? Do I have that right?
Mark The Friars is "painted" on the area you want anchor the steri-strips. Let it dry to a tacky consistancy, happens pretty quick so no big deal, put one end of the steri-strip on across the wound and pull it tightly across and put that end on the skin on the otherside. Try to line up the edges of the wound, helps it to heal if that is all you plan to do, but more importantly, by lining up the wound edges, it will help keep it clean, thus minimizing the chance of infection even more. Oh yeah, don't forget to get a tetanus shot. I usually make sure I am up to date yearly. ANY doubts about the wound, see a doctor! FWIW, I carry 1/4" and 1/2" wide steri-strips in my kit, friars, telfa, pressure dressings and tape. Elasto plast dressings in the wider sizes can double as both the dressing and the tape.
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I do not carry suture supplies or a stapler but I do have compression bandages (bloodsuckers),traumadex (which is another version of quick clot) and dermabond (sterile superglue). If a cut is that bad in the field I am far more concerned with blood loss and shock than scaring and keeping the wound clean.
I do have a couple percocet or demerol in the pack as well (my Dad has Kidney stones).
Hunt hard, kill clean, waste nothing and offer no apologies.
"In rifle work, group size is of some interest...but it is well to remember that a rifleman does not shoot groups, he shoots shots." Jeff Cooper
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Mr. troutfly:
This is a quick thanks to you and Mr. bert12 for clarifying what I was trying to say and completing my thoughts for me. I shouldn�t post when I�m tired��
Mr. MarlinMark:
Please read the replies by Mr. Troutfly and Mr. bert12 carefully and follow them. In my experience, they are both correct.
Here at work, we�ve had serious infections come up so quickly, I wouldn�t have believed it if I hadn�t seen it. The next time it won�t and it appears to be a much worse injury. It seems to me to depend on the individual�s overall health as well, but I don�t really know. What I�m saying is that just because buddy survived �this or that� and got away with treating it �this way�, does not guarantee you or even he would be so lucky next time.
I�m trying to encourage you to follow Mr. troutfly�s advice in that if a wound is bad enough that you need sutures or even a couple Steri-Strips, you�re likely best to be heading back to the truck and then to professional medical help.
Again, my thanks to the experts for their very good input and here�s hoping none of us need the First Aid kits we pack!
Regards,
Dwayne
The most important stuff in life isn't "stuff"
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Rather than sutures, butterflies or strips, superglue, duct tape, and direct pressure. If it's really bad, get out asap.
Have you taken a good first aid class?
If you take the time it takes, it takes less time.
--Pat Parelli
American by birth; Alaskan by choice.
--ironbender
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