Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Africa 416 Rigby vs 375 H&H

Is there enough of a difference to step up if cape buff/brown bear are going to be the largest animal sought?

If yes can the Rigby be reloaded easily? I would hate to get into paying over $5 for a shell.

Thanks for sharing.

375 will work for either

I can't comment about the bear, but regarding the Buff, either calibre will do the job, but if you can shoot the 416 comfortably and competantly, then the 416 will do the job better than the 375. Especially on a frontal chest shot, where that big dewlap soaks up an awful lot of energy. I've seen that shot taken numerous times with both calibres and the difference in shot reaction between the two calibres is dramatic.

the 416 is a big step up from the 375 (on both ends). if you can handle it, yes it is better.

it's also easy to load for. you'll have to suck it up and buy Norma brass at gold prices and you'll go through a pound of powder per sitting but dies are readily available and it's straightforward.

it can also be loaded from 375 H&H recoil to 416 Wby recoil so you have a lot of leeway there too.

For Cape buffalo, I'd rather use the 416 Rem. Mag. that either the 416 Rigby or 375 H&H. As fas as I'm concerned it's a much more sensible option that either one of them.

You can have a 416 Remington rifle that is the same size and weight as a 375 H&H and with the same magazine capacity, yet delievers 416 Rigby ballistics and kicks significantly less due to the fact that it burns 25% less powder.

It's the best of all worlds............

AD

Thanks to all for very insightful information.

Perhaps my qustion was not straightforward enough. I have the 375 H&H and just trying to rationaize NEED for a bigger thumper in my arsenal with no desire to go above a 416 class.

It would just seem to me that if you need to step up, you might as well go up to .45 caliber or bigger...plenty of great .45 bullets avaliable and the choice of brass is better.

I thought you guys could buy pretty much any calibre brass over there....... Certainly your prices are a hell of a lot cheaper than they are over here in Africa.

AS was stated before, the difference in reaction of a buff is quite a bit more when hit with a 416 of any type than a 375 of any ilk. Simply putting a lot more WHAP onto the target. A better stopper in a bad situation. That said, the recoil is noticably different and since your PH will likely have a stopping rifle for follow up shots and crisis intervention a 375 is a very versatile and useful tool worldwide and is a VERY popular choice among clients (Vs. PH's) hunting any of the big 5. The 45's are more of the same but drop way down in versatility and way up - again - in Recoil and as such are not really as popular with hunters and really should not be, in my opinion.

anything can be had for a price!

Norma brass is the best I've found for the Rigby. I have a bunch for the 470 too. It is pricey stuff compared to run-of-the-mill cases.....

The 416 Rem would be cheaper, I like the lower pressures and the factor of the Rigby though....

I agree with Allen, the 416 Rem is the most practical route, and it comes in a lighter version than the Rigby. Mine have all been on the pre 64 Win action or the 98 Mauser..

The Rigby is a fine old round, but its a waste of a big action IMO...If I had that big action, I'd go wild and build me a 500 something or other. I don't like packing all that extra weight that goes with the 416 Rigby or any of the big case rounds. For a true big bore I'c opt for the 500 Jefferys on a 98 Mauser. but recoil is a factor and the big bore recoil dictates a slow recovery and I think about all those buffalo that die at your feet! that extra shot might be a good thing.

As much as I love the old .375, the 416s are much better, and if you get in a charge situation and you probably will sooner or later if you hunt buffalo long enough, then you will more than appreciate it..

I would like to bring to everyones attention that buffalo are normally killed with 3 to 5 shots average. Those bragging one shot instant kills are flukes, or they are brain and spine shots. In 40 years of hunting and culling buffalo I have had one instant kill with a shoulder shot as I recall.

I am told by some vet. med. boys that a charging buffalo can be killed instantly with a heart shot if the bullet makes contact with the bull the instant his front feet hit the ground as that will flush the brain with a surge of blood that kills him by stroke or something like that. I have witnessed this but I don't know but what the bullet also hit the spine.

I see the .416 as a moderation caliber, not too much recoil, but still has the ability to stop a charge with any animal. The 375 and 458 Lott and up for example are extremes in opposite directions.

If one can handle the weight on long 15 mile walks, can handle the recoil, and shoot the 458 Lott and up as well as he shoots a .223 then that's your best choice. But trash the macho and be honest with yourself or you are making one big mistake. I have to really concentrate with the Lott to shoot it, tell myself the recoil won't kill me etc. and I can shoot it, but I don't want to deal with this in Africa and I shoot the 404 and 416 Rem like I do a 22 L.R..

If you shoot and feel better with a .375 then thats the gun for you, but shoot all the caliber you can.

All that said, one must come to his own conclusion, and live with it. That is what makes a horse race, otherwise we would all still be using the 06!! I chose moderation with the 416 Rem.

I own and love my 416 Rigby but I have to agree 100% with what Allen & Ray had to say and defer to their opinion as mine is VERY limited. I lugged that Rigby around chasing buff and it was heavy and yep, it took three (3) shots, all through the shoulder before he called it quits. If I'm going to tote a big action all day, then I'm packing a 450 which is what I'm having built. Also, Randy Brooks racked up quite a few one shot kills with the 416 and 350gr TSXs on buffalo. Layne Simpson also stipulates the 416 Weatherby @ 2700 fps is the most impressive buff killer he's ever seen. Just have to have the right bullet. The pressure problems with Remingtons were initial batches and have long been resolved. Very pratical caliber indeed. jorge

PS: I sat in a Yugo...once, but that's all it took. Relevance? Like most of my knowledge on a wide range of subjects I gleaned from reading or personal experiences by folks I know & trust.

Thanks to all for sharing your knowledge. Very well done.

I had just been lusting over the Rigby on gunbroker and thought I might take a shot at it but I think I will pass and study the Remmie a little longer.

Much depends on exactly what you want. I have both the .416 Rigby in a fancy-wood CZ, and the .416 Rem. Magnum, a custom M70 with Echols Legend McMillan stock. I use the .416 Rigby strictly with iron sights, and scope the .416 Remington. They weigh exactly the same, 9-1/4 pounds each, so the weight of a .416 Rigby depends to some extent on if you scope it. (This is also, by the way, exactly what Harry Selby's .416 Rigby weighs.)

The big reason to choose the Rigby, aside from romance, is pressure. I know several PH's who report very stocky bolt lifts in hot weather from the .416 Remington in factory ammo or equivalent handloads. In most weather it works fine, however. the Rigby never has any such problems.

I have had two 1-shot kills with the Rigby on shoulder-shot buffalo so my experience is a little different than that of others here. I have hunted a little with the .458 Lott but have found the .416's so satisfactory that I don't feel the need for anything bigger. The 416's are a noticeable step up from the .375.

If you want an opinion on whether the .416 Weatherby (or any other round) is the greatest buffalo cartridge ever, I would ask Craig Boddington. He is the only American gun writer who has killed a LOT of buffalo, with a wide variety of cartridges. Most writers have killed maybe half a dozen, but then again anybody who has ever killed one Cape buffalo (or maybe even none) is ready with an opinion on suitable rifles.

John, from what I've seen, if you handload the 416 Rem. Mag. properly, there's absolutely no reason whatsoever to have to deal with unreasonable pressures. I use 370 gr. North Fork solid and soft-point loads at just under 2500 fps., and there are no signs of excessive pressures at all, plus I've used those same loads late-season in the Selous (100 + weather) with not so much as the hint of a sticky bolt lift. Even 400 gr. handloads @ 2400 fps. can be put up that are completely trouble-free in hot weather.

Of course, SAMMI-spec pressures on the 416 Rem. Mag. are about the same as those for the 375 H&H, 300 Win. Mag., 300 H&H, all of the Weatherby magnums, 338. Win., 458 Win., 270 Win., 7mm Rem. Mag. (all are commonly-used in Africa), etc..........

Certain batches of Remington factory ammo were indeed way too hot, there's no question about that, but by the same token, during that era (late '90s, '00) Remington was producing certain lots of 375 H&H ammo that were far too hot as well. I had some Remington 375 H&H 300 gr. Swift A-Frame ammo from one lot that gave ejector marks and a sticky bolt lift in 55 degree weather here at home, and that stuff wouldn't have been suitable for any sort of hunting, anywhere.

Quite honestly, I think that certain such batches of factory ammo as well as poor handloading practices have given rise to the excessive-pressures dialogue. Fundamentally, the 416 Rem. Mag. is a pretty straight-up cartridge to work with.

That's been my experience, anyway.............

AD

AD-what do you burn for powder in your 416 Rem and the 370 NF?

Thx

Dober

can't speak for AD , but RL-15 is said to be a sweet choice (similar to it's use in the H&H). Several acquaintances dote heavily upon it.

Thx I use R15 and H4350 in my 375 Wby and am just wondering.

Dober

I use it exclusively in the 375 H&H and have loaded 416 for a friend or two.

I like H4831 for the Rigby.

I wouldn't necessarily dismiss the Rigby as having to be built on a large, heavy, bulky rifle. This one goes under 10lbs scoped, and handles like a dream. It holds 4 in the belly, and shoots like a house afire.

The stock was made fairly slim, and it's balance dictates that it carries lighter than the scale would suggest.

When you add the fact that I can either exceed 416 Rem velocities if I wish, or match them at much lower pressure, and that the brass is excellent and lasts forever, the Rigby seems a solid choice to me.

The rifle turned out so good that I sold my 416 Rem, as I had no intention of ever picking the Rem over this rifle.