Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Fire forming without bullets!

I use the same loads in fireforming as I do otherwise.

When I got my Tubb 2K match rifle, I had to resize and fireform 22-250 to 6XC because cases were not available then. I used the exact load I used later after fireforming. I fireformed cases by shooting them in matches. There was no difference in accuracy or POI at 200 yards. I even shot them in a few 600 yard matches. However, they would not work smoothly through the magazine for some reason so I only used them for slow fire.

David Tubb's web site, incidentally, recommends heavier loads for fireforming than for matches.

Later, I had a 6.5x54mm with excess headspace. I fireformed those cases with my masimum hunting load. I used chamber compression, not bullets seated into the lands. Since I have to practice anyway, I fireformed and practiced at the same time.

So I consider fireforming without bullets, using bullseye or cream of wheat, as a waste of time and money.

Anybody ever try a small charge of Unique and a cast bullet? I haven't tried this type of load for fireforming AI cases, but I do fire thousands of similar loads for short-range target and practice. Data for these loads is shared freely by a gentleman by the name of Greg Mushial and can be found at http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm . I load 11 grains of Unique under a 400 grain bullet in my 45-70s for around 1000 fps. There is no data for the 280 per se but I would think around 8 grains of Unique might work judging by the data posted for the 30-06 (I would try it anyway). The idea is to USE NO FILLER so the powder actually detonates. Pressure is limited by the small amount of powder involved. You can read more about it at the website posted above.

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JB - By blown caseheads I was referring to case head separations. When I first got the .25-06 AI (TC Encore)I ran Remington factory loads through it (120 gr bullets, probably corelocks?) to form brass. Accuracy wasn't so hot and cases looked a little bright just ahead of the web. They shot well when reloaded with 115 grain TSX's but I don't remember the load. During the second loading cycle with that brass I experienced two case head seperations, one at the range, one shooting a deer. After that I formed fifty cases with the cornmeal/bullseye method. Cases appear better filled out in the shoulder than the factory loads and completely lack the bright ring in front of the case head area.

I have a bucket full of 25 caliber cast bullets that I will probably try in the 250AI one of these days.

That is how I do it as well. Real close to full throttle AI loads right from the get go.

cra1948,

Then your AI chamber was cut a little loose. Correctly cut, new factory brass should slightly "crush-fit" and you will never see a head separation.

For me the nosler brass is the way to go for my 280AI. But before nosler's brass was available I used Rem. 150 bulk bullets and H4895. I used the fire forming procedure as an opportunity to practice off hand shooting. Yesterday I went pig hunting and my only opportunity was an off hand shot at running boar at 150 yards or so. Mister big is being ground into sausage as I type this.

Mule Deer - I kind of suspected that, but if I recall correctly (sometimes doubtful) I believe I took off the extractor, shoved a factory load in as far as it would go, and could still measure several thou of protuberance. In any event, I'm really happy with the 50 cases I've formed with BE/cornmeal/Elmers. A hundred of them will probably last me forever, given the amount I use this barrel. Do you really think this (B/E/C) will do a great amount of harm to the barrel?

The method that I use � fire-forming with inert filler, without bullets � forms cases fully and adequately at pressures (and therefore temperatures) much lower than the Pmax of a full-pressure load with a bullet.

Often the first inert-filler loads that I try are too mild to form crisp shoulders. So I increase 'em slightly until the shoulders just form. Bulleted loads plaster brass tight against the wall of the chamber long before the pressure peaks.

The purpose of going to the AI is to increase powder capacity. If you can fit the same powder charge in a fireforming load then why go to the trouble of the AI?

This does not compute.

Dude, full throttle for the parent case, that don't mean there ain't more powder/velocity in the formed case.

All I need to is up the charge for the formed case, ain't found a bullet/powder combo that worked in a full throttle parent case that didn't carry over to the formed case, albeit with extra powder.

Can you compute that?

Dr. Howell,

What do you use for an inert filler, and which powder in terms of burning rate?

The only powder that I've used is Bullseye, but any fast handgun or shotgun powder is great for the job.

I've always used Instant Ralston, simply because it was the cheapest candidate on the grocery shelf. Cream of Wheat, corn meal, and the like are good. But never flour, which compacts into a bore-blocking solid and can burst the gun. The most thoroughly devastated gun that I ever examined for a court case was a 12-gauge Marlin Goose Gun whose owner, I suspect, must've buffered his shot with flour. The explosion that burst the gun was extremely severe.

The inert filler acts as a form-fitting, gentle plug that swages the case out to fit the chamber.

I lubricate the case to permit it to slip back tight against the face of the bolt, and I tamp a wadded quarter-square of toilet tissue over the powder to keep the powder and the filler from mixing.

How much powder? About 10% of a caseful, to start with (which is usually too little), increased by small increments, if necessary, to make the shoulder and upper body just fill-out fully.

This method is safe almost to a fault, but the use of a fast powder makes it susceptible to danger in careless hands.

Oh, yes! � almost forgot � pistol primers!

Like powders that are good for the 243 aren't good for the 6mm Remington? 220 Swift uses different powder than the 22-250?
This does not compute.

Just to be clear. I use both Tac, H335, and X-Terminator in both my 223 and 223AI. There is enough room in the parent 223 case to get in enough of these powders in to get AI velocities in fire forming loads in a AI'd chamber. If I am looking for 100 fps. increase over what I was getting pre AI, apples to apples, I'll work up a fire forming load that is maybe 50 fps shy of that. I do that more in prudence than that I have ever seen any pressure signs as say compared to chasing internet, AI velocities.
You get perfectly formed cases, Even at a bit shy of full bore AI's loads you are in parent case +P territory, and accuracy is there to boot in most cases.
I do the same thing with my 22-250AI and RL 15.

Thanks for the reply. I'm having persistent daydreams of building a rifle in 6mm Rem AI and the more bits and pieces of information I gather the more reasonable (rational?) it sounds.