Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles 9.3X62 or 338 Win. Mag: Which would you rather have in your hands.....

Unless a guy is extremely well-heeled, or fortunate to live in the country, or a guide like Phil Shoemaker,he is highly unlikely to have the opportunity to shoot enough grizzly bears to become an expert at it, or at what it takes to put them down.

Plus, in addition to having the opportunity, you need the motivation to shoot them as well. They are not like deer, elk, moose, etc, where the food value of the animal is high, so some people, Kute included, see no need to shoot them except on a once(or twice, or three times) hunt of a lifetime, or in self-defense.

In my very limited experience, big bears die just like any other game animals,and there is not much mystery to it; just hit them well with good bullets!In fact I think that killing big game animals is by and large extremely simple, and a lot more is made of it than necessary.I number among my friends three people(all fairly experienced hunters)who have killed grizzlies with 270's;two with 130 Partitions and one with a 130 Bitterroot. The last was at short range to thwart a charge when he was retrieving cached sheep meat.One of these same guys also killed an Alaskan BB with the 160 partition from a 270.Another friend on the same trip killed his with a 7 mag and 175 partition.

It does not take a rocket scientist to figure that either of the cartridges mentioned here would work fine;or to figure that a 338 will make a bigger hole than a 30/06, or that a guy is justified in carrying the biggest rifle he can handle effectively for these animals.Once you've seen a few shot,and mix it with your experience on other big game any intelligent guy can make a reasonable choice in rifles for grizzlies or Alaskan browns.You don't have to shoot a hundred of them to know what works. This ain't nuclear physics.

I agree with some of your post. I've seen more than a few of the big bears shot, I've lived and hunted big bear country for a long time now. A moose is on par with a grizz, size wise, but not tenacity wise. A moose is a lot easier to kill. Not even in the same ball park. You shoot a moose through the belly, he'll stand there, or run a few yards, and wait for the end....A grizzly will actively come looking for you...Or he'll wait for you to come to him, and he'll WANT to get you. A big bull might try, if you screw up and bump into him, but he won't WANT to kill you.


But that is moot, as that wasn't what my comment was about...I simply find it odd that a certain contingent will immediately jump on E for his "cut and paste posts", yet when someone else does it (with exactly the same knowledge base and experience), its taken as sage advice...........

Kodiak: It gets ugly quick if you don't hit them right. I learned that early....I hit too high. I discovered you can't hit around the edges and get away with it.They must be hit "just so"

Aye....And even then, sometimes it doesn't work according to plan....

Called-in bears seem a bit tougher too....Adrenaline is already up, and they are looking for a fight at that point....Even blacks sometimes will continue to come to the call after they figure out what you are.......

That was a very good post, Bob, I think that you have "nailed it" and your wisdom is sound advice for anyone, IMHO.

I have been there at the death of about a dozen Grizzlies and have witnessed the effects of various rifles on them. My feeling based on this is that I prefer to use a "bigger hammer" and this is due to both knowing a couple of guys who were mauled and using various cartridges on a few dozen animals over 40+ years.

As I remember, I have watched guys shoot G-bears with .270W. .30-06, 7mmRem., .300Mag. and a .338W. I "might" be missing one or two here as most of this was back in the '60s and mistakes in memory DO happen.

While actually working in the wilderness, I tended to carry whatever hunting rifle I owned at the time and never had a purpose-built "Grizzly Rifle" (ta ra) until my last two seasons as a fire lookout with the AFS.

I have never shot a G-bear, as you noticed, simply because I never really wanted to, had no place to display the hide and was not rich enough to pay for the taxidermy. Almost all of the bush workers I worked with felt pretty much the same way and while we encountered the big guys, it doesn't happen as often as one might think, even in the most remote, bear rich parts of B.C.

The way I approach anything to do with outdoors activities, vocational and recreational, is quite simple as I believe in preparing for the worst that can happen, not, depending on "luck"to see me through an emergency situation. This is more important to a backpacker like me than it might be to a "quadjockey" who roars around logging roads, "experiencing the wilderness".

So, like many guys I know here in B.C., with 40+ years of bush experience, I tend to carry one of my .338s more often than not. This coming year, a buddy of mine really wants a Grizzly and I am getting a desire for one, as well, so, I hope to "break my cherry" and I know just where to go, based on many backpacking trips alone in the Kootenays.

Will I carry a .375H&H P-64 or will I carry the "new" Browning CRF .458WM, well, IF it is finished, gunsmiths being what they are, I "might". COULD I do it with a .30-06, well, I think so, but, since "gack" about all of this is what most of us log on for, why not discuss it and enjoy the discussion. Besides, I am in the middle of processing 200 rounds of virgin .458 brass I bought yesterday and THAT is NOT my favourite activity, I need a break from it.

Again, very solid post, tells it like it is.

Kodiak/Kutenay:: I have never been so nervous in the outdoors as when I had one back in the brush "demonstrate" and pop teeth on Admiralty... 375's undergo a significant "shrinking process".We backed off without incident,which was fine with me.

I have been left speechless by their power,agility,and ability to quickly negotiate rough thick terrain in an instant,and saw one "swim" over the tops of alders like a squirrel on a front-yard hedge.I thought my mind had played tricks till I could find no blood on the ground, looked up, and found it scattered through the tops of the alders.It was then that I realized that grizzlies ARE DIFFERENT, like NOTHING else here, and demand utmost respect and hunting discretion.

Thanks to both for an interesting thread.

That's what I was thinking...

Who cares if the gun holds 5 rounds or 100? You're going to get off one maby two. given the choise between the two I'd take the 338 because I own one and I shoot it alot. Loaded with 250gr Partitions there isn't anything in North America that I would not hunt with that rifle.

Brian,

I did not see the original comments you quote as I have that poster on "ignore" in order to avoid needless strife here.

However, you seem confused about correct English usage here, again, and I will just clarify my earlier post for your benefit.

It IS correct to say that I have USED a .30-06 for PROTECTION in that I have CARRIED rifles chambered in this proven cartridge AND had them in my hands, pointed at a Grizzly which approached me far too closely for my comfort. I have also done this with a 7mmRM and both of these felt pretty damm tiny as I was within 10 yards of each bear.

So, it is correct to say that I CARRIED a given rifle for PROTECTION as it is to say that you may have an electronic alarm system in your home for PROTECTION. In this context, one can use either term interchangeably, as a check with your edition of "Fowler" will verify...do you have the latest edition?

Now, had I been forced to actually KILL one or more of these bears, it would THEN be correct to say that I USED a .30-06 for PROTECTION and/or for SELF DEFENCE, rather than saying I CARRIED said rifle for this purpose. So, your thoughts on this are merely based on a minor semantical point and really have little to do with the topic of the thread.

Happy to clear this up, old chap, as you know, after phone conversations where you have requested my assistance with backpack camping and wilderness gear to begin doing this very rewarding activity, my advice is honest, trustworthy and based on extensive field experience. I know that a man of your level of Grizzly-wilderness experience and self-proclaimed concern with environmental issues would not ask for my advice if it were not.

So, yes, I HAVE "carried" a .30-06 when working alone in Grizzly country, the last time was for 5.5 months alone on an Alberta Forest Service fire tower, BUT, when my favourite .338 WM was shipped to me, mid-season, after having a synthetic stock installed, I then "used" it by preference as I consider a .338-250 Nosler at 2700+ fps-mv to be a BETTER "stopper" based in what I have SEEN, than a .308-180 NP at the same velocity.

I have also CARRIED a Remington 870 12 ga. with Imperial slugs to PROTECT my reforestation crew, this was my first real supervisory position. I really did NOT trust that combo even on the yearling West Kootenay Blackie that I chased away from a bunch of self-styled "mountain men" on the crew, while they ran, screaming, over half the Lost Creek watershed. So, being a "starving student", I made do and did not lose a single draft dodger, which will, no doubt, make you happy, eh!

In THAT situation, I would AGREE with your opinion, as I understand it, this was where bigger is NOT better, due to other factors involved. So, we do concur on some aspects of this, at least. Given your concern for harmony on the Campfire, I trust that this will alleviate your confusion and allow you to enjoy your Sunday sports watching in peace, contentment and the knowledge that you and I agree on this issue.

You ever consider pollitics??, you're a natural

RO

Lots of interesting points brought up here and some guys have some clear field experience with bears and some are just making judgements of what they have read or think would work well. I think that the big bears both grizzly and browns get a lot of respect from folks, but we tend to put them on a higher pedestal as opposed to where they should be. These things get killed up here every year with calibers of guns of all different types as well as bow and arrow. I think the most accurate statement made so far was by BobinNH he said,

...It gets ugly quick if you don't hit them right. I learned that early....I hit too high. I discovered you can't hit around the edges and get away with it.They must be hit "just so"

Thats the bottom line. These are not ungulates they are predators and lobbing lead/copper via bad angles will get things [bleep] up in a hurry. Theres a lot of hunters out there that truly dont shoot well under pressure, then theres the group that absolutely cant wait for the optimum shot angle and try to compensate that with better bullets. The bottom line is with Bears, all of them, you have to make good shots, and pass on the bad shots. My 9 year old son shot a big black bear this past spring and I was backing him up when he made the shot at 15 yards. This black bear was just about as big as most grizzlies I have seen in our area. The boy made a not so good shot, and I was forced to empty my 338WM from awful angles, half hanging out of a tree, without clear shots but managed to break the bear down and kill him. I clearly agree that there is no worse feeling in the world for a hunter than seeing a big bear shot in anything but vitals. You'll only do it once, that I can assure you.

I would think that most answers from folks from the lower-48 would point to the 9.3, while most answers from Alaskans would point to the .338WM. As for me, I would prefer the .338WM loaded with 275-Aframe, or 300-grain Woodleigh. Simply as that.

Regardless of what any of us feels the 9.3x62 is, it's not much more powerful than a .338-06 loaded with a bullet of similar construction and weight, nor much more powerful that a .338 Sabi, nor a .35 Whelen. There is only so much powder you can stuff in that .30-06 size case, and each one of these would push a similar weight at a relatively close speed. AND no, don't tell me that any of these is similar or more powerful than a .375 H&H, because these aren't.

One thing for sure: them female brunette Canuks are pretty:)

If all else fails, regardless of calibers make sure you and your partners are ready for the worst! This is the terminal result of a bear encounter gone wrong with 7 deer hunters on Kodiak. On the count of 3 everybody shoot works for me!

I am a 338 man myself,I like the 338 Win and have used it with complete satisfaction...

Probably the most commonly used heavy bullet in the .338-06, .338 Sabi, and .35 Whelen (IMHO) is a 250 gr bullet. All three cartridges will shoot a 250 gr bullet at around 2400-2500 fps. (I'm being conservative here.) The most commonly used heavy bullet in the 9.3x62 is the 286 gr. The 9.3x62 can push a 286 gr bullet to around 2400-2500 fps.


From the article "Medium Mediums" by John Barsness:




So, just for comparison, I put together this table:



So, at least when using good handloads, I'd say the 9.3x62 can come pretty close to the .338 Win Mag and the .375 H&H.

Just my two cents....

Cheers!
-Bob F.

I own, load for and shoot various rifles in all the three chamberings and I agree with BFaucett, there really is little difference between them with the best loads.

Seems to me, that we have gone full-circle on this one, everyone has THEIR favourite and using what you shoot best is probably the wisest course of action. But, it's fun to speculate and discuss this as it "could" happen to anyone of us hunting in a fairly large section of North America....and I am GLAD that Grizzlies are still numerous enough that this can be a legitimate concern for us.

Then, when using good handloads with the heaviest bullets for the .35 Whelen, a 300-grain Woodleigh with the .338-06 and the.338 Sabi, these three should come very close to the .375 H&H? My point is that "being close" is not the same as being just as or more powerful. If it was so, then would not be any reasons to use any cartridge from the .338WM to the .375 H&H.

(Ray, looks like I quoted your original statement before you edited your message.)

Well, it's all a matter of degrees. The .35 Whelen gets close to the 9.3x62 and, in turn, the 9.3x62 gets close to the .375 H&H.

But, I don't think the .338-06 and the .35 Whelen can come as close to the .375 H&H as the 9.3x62 can. I remember reading an article my Finn Aagaard where he got 2250 fps with a 300 gr Barnes Original bullet in the .35 Whelen. I have no idea what velocity a .338-06 could get with a 300 gr bullet but my GUESS would be a max of around 2200 fps.

And, while the 9.3x62 has a case very similar to the .30-06 (and the .338-06 and .35 Whelen), the 9.3x62 does have the shoulder a little further forward and the diameter at the shoulder is also a little greater which gives the 9.3x62 a little more powder capacity than the .338-06 and the .35 Whelen.

BTW, I have rifles in .338 Win Mag, .35 Whelen, 9.3x62 and .375 H&H. I like all of them. Though, of the four, I have only hunted with the 9.3x62 and the .375 H&H. (Plains game in South Africa. I've never hunted any type of dangerous game in either North America or Africa.)



Yeah, I'd agree with that. IMHO, the 9.3x62 is "more gun" than the .35 Whelen. And, the .375 H&H is "more gun" than the 9.3x62. More powder capacity and bullet weight wins out every time over a smaller cartridge when it comes to generating "horsepower". But, I think it's amazing how close the 9.3x62 can come to the .375 H&H (and the .338 Win Mag).


Cheers!
-Bob F.

I agree with you with in relation to the .35 Whelen and .338-06 when compared to the 9.3x62 as one "being more gun than the next," and that's exactly the points I was trying to make. To me at least, the .338WM is more gun than the 9.3x62, the same way the .375 H&H is more gun than the .338WM. But just being powerfully "close" to the next cartridge does not make it "the same".

Both the 9.3x62 and the .338 Sabi hold slightly more powder in their cases than the .338-06 and the .35 Whelen, but the latter get in fact "close" to the 9.3x62 and the Sabi when bullets that are similarly constructed and of similar weight are used. How close, relating to killing effect on game, is a matter of debate. At the same time, as one can create a good and stiff handload for the 9.3x62, so can one do the same for the .338WM, and also for the .375H&H and still maintain their respective lead over the first.