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Originally Posted by Steelhead
BPCR?


Laffin this morning.

Thanks SH.

Bob

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"Yea, I know. But I like the lighter weight bullet because it shoots much flatter and hits just as hard."

Nope!!! Here's the plain truth.

Bullet 200 yds .. 300 yds .. 400 yds .. 500 yds

150 NP ........ 0 ... -7.6 ... -22.4 ... -45.7

200 NP ........ 0 ... -8.4 ... -24.3 ... -49.0


The above are for the 150 grain @ 2900 f/s and the 200 grain @ 2700 f/s as per their web site.

The difference in trajectory is WAY less than one MOA, and when they arrive at 500 yards, the 200 grain has 26% more energy.

OK, we need a different excuse NOT to use what the experts above have tried to tell us. What'll it be this time?

Wayne

Last edited by peepsight3006; 03/24/08.
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I looked at it a bit differently being as I am bored and can't sleep....

I used the 150 NPT @ 3K which I feel is realistic for the most part and can't really do much more. And I used the 200 NPT @ 2600 which I also feel is top end but doable from what JB tells me.

I also sighted them both in dead nuts on @ 100 as I feel this is the way I feel best gives bullets a side by side test. IMO sighting @ 200 doesn't, but that is just my way.

So:

150 Noz @ 3K = 100=0
300= -11.6
400=-26.8
500=-49.2

200 Noz @ 2600 =100=0
300=-15.9
400=-35
500=-63.9

Kind of interesting isn't it how playing with the numbers a bit this way or that changes things isn't it?

I'm still for using dotz and I'll still use the 200 over the 150 any old day.

Just a thunk or two on a late night.

Dober

Last edited by Mark R Dobrenski; 03/24/08.

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I never liked seeing the .30/06 used of ballistic comparisons. It kept me away from the cartridge for around 20 years after I first tried it then saw all the articles promoting indoor mouse loads coming out of Petersen's stable.

It wasn't until Remington approached my editor in the early 90's and requested that I review one of their rifles that I tried it seriously, and pushed it to see what it would do.

I have been a user ever since and still like the elcheapo stuff like 180gn Hornady's @ 2800fps which is easy to achieve in most rifles, even with 22 inch barrels. Hits hard and is easy to shoot.

Guess that is why it has been around so long.

JW


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For any single application, there's probably a cartridge that can do it better than the '06. However, if there's a whole bunch of different applications, over a wide size range of critters, it'll make a pretty decent showing for it's utility.

Wayne

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I really like the heavy bullets in the old war horse. All of the .30-06's I have owned simply love the heavy weights. My last kill was with a custom model 70 with a 27" pipe. I was shooting 200 grain Speer Hot core bullets at 2,700 fps behind a stiff load of RL22. I was hunting wild buffalo in the rugged mountains of Utah. After several days of REALLY tough hunting and lots of sho leather, I finally found a couple of buffs at 8,500 feet in the steepest, nastiest stuff you could imagine. I couldn't close the distance and the shot was 520 yards up hill. I dialed in the turrets and hit the switch. Bullet caught the 10.5 year old buff behind the shoulder and it dropped, rolling 75 yards down the mountain (very steep mountain) and got wrapped up in a big pine tree. The bullet broke two ribs going in and one rib going out. Full penetration with a .50 piece sized exit hole. Several witnesses could not believe the .30-06 could do something like that at such a long distance. Of course, I had no doubts whatsoever, having done it several times. Love the round! Flinch


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Mark,

If instead of comparing 200 NPTs with 150 NPTs sighted in at any particular range, you select instead the maximum point blank range for each (3" maximum above a scoped line of sight in each case), the 150 ends up sightes in at a longer range than the 200 and the diference in trajectories becomes much greater.

It's even greater if you compare 150 spitzers with 220 grain round noses.

Short of bison, moose, or big bears I find it difficult to imagine a purpose in North America for the 220 grain bullet. I have killed a few pronghorn and deer with 150 grain Sierra cup-and-cores loaded to about 3000 in the 30-06 and found the penetration and expansion adequate for the purpose. My guess is that a 180 or 200 NPT spitzer would be ideal for elk.


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I recently ordered some 220gr Partitions, will use them in my aperture sighted 30/06 Husqvarna for playing backup with all my newbie black bear hunters this spring.


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Originally Posted by Steelhead
I recently ordered some 220gr Partitions, will use them in my aperture sighted 30/06 Husqvarna for playing backup with all my newbie black bear hunters this spring.


Heresy!!!

Peepsights and heavy for caliber 30 caliber Partitions? Nobody can hit anything without at least a 16 X 60, diamond studded, see in the dark, radar guided, digitally enhanced, TACTICAL, CAMO, scope. Even if there is a hit withthe 30-06 using a Partition, it will just bounce off. smile smile

Wayne

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Originally Posted by IndyCA35
...I find it difficult to imagine a purpose in North America for the 220 grain bullet.

Personally, I find it difficult to imagine a purpose in North America for which the 220 grain bullet is not well-suited.

-


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Originally Posted by Big_Redhead
Originally Posted by IndyCA35
...I find it difficult to imagine a purpose in North America for the 220 grain bullet.

Personally, I find it difficult to imagine a purpose in North America for which the 220 grain bullet is not well-suited.

-


It might be hard to imagine, but if the object is to wound a fine animal so that it will hobble off and die a painful, lingering death, the heavy for caliber Partition is NOT well-suited for that use.

Wayne

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I am loading up box of 30-06 with 220 Partitions and another with 220 Woodleighs and plan on using one or the other during this spring's bear season in my 30-06 as my back-up piece.
In the past, in test media the 220 partitions from my 30-06 penetrate virtually identical to 300 gr partitons from the 375 H&H.

I have killed as many bears with my 30-06 and 200 partitons as I have with the various 375's and while the 375's sometimes (? !) seem to put them down a little faster - the difference is not much, nor as evident, as most people suspect.

I am not suggesting that the 30-06 is an equal to my 458 as a backup rifle - because it certainly is not - but when used by someone who can shoot it the 30-06 with today's best bullets is a perfectly suitable rifle for use on big bears.




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Anyone who claims the 30-06 is not effective has either not used one, or else is unwittingly commenting on their marksmanship.
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I'm a great fan of the 30-06, considering it perhaps the best all-round caliber for B.C. and perhaps, North America.

Prior to Barnes all-copper bullets, I was a proponent of heavy-for-caliber for all truly "big-game" animals.

Now - I'm not so sure.

I would guess (this is a bullet test I haven't done) that a 200 grain tsx and even a 180 grain TSX would either equal, or out-penetrate a 220 grain Nosler Partition. But, that's nothing more than a guess, based on what I've witnessed with other bullets and other calibers.

Has anyone done any real comparison on these great 30 caliber bullets?


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Quote
In the past, in test media the 220 partitions from my 30-06 penetrate virtually identical to 300 gr partitons from the 375 H&H.

I have killed as many bears with my 30-06 and 200 partitons as I have with the various 375's and while the 375's sometimes (? !) seem to put them down a little faster - the difference is not much, nor as evident, as most people suspect.


Thats some good info. I recently stepped up my Black Bear rig to the 200 grain Partitions from 180's. Just looking for more consistent exits. If it performs well, it could end up replacing my .375 for Brownies...simple is better, right?

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Just a note for all you youngsters out there that were born after WW II.

In the late 40's and early 50's, when I was just starting to hunt big game, there was a Grizzly season in Montana. This was before the magnum era, and those who hunted the big bruins usually carried the '06 loaded with 220's or a 348 Win with 250's and both were equipped with receiver sights.

Today we have more powerful rifles, but those guys and their "dirty oh six" felt pretty well armed.

Wayne

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I even heard that folks back then felt WELL armed with a Garand and Sherman tank.


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Took a cow elk with 220s out of my 06.

No bullet recovery. Nice hole in, nice hole out. Lung blood all over the place. Dead elk. That's how it's supposed to work, right?

-Jake


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I’d take a 165 or 180 grain TTSX over any 200 or 220 grain in the 30/06 and never look back.



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jwp, I doubt you ever will see any difference but all of us are affected on some level by nostalgia and when it is backed up by long experience it is hard to change. My favorite load for the 30-06 and .300 mags over the past 35 years has included the 200 gr Partition


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I'm sure a Nosler 220 would work just fine on anything in NA as the nose is very soft. I had a rebarreled Mod 70 FWT in 30-06 in the mid 90's and killed a big cow elk with it and the Hornady LM 180 load. It worked fine. I then had an opportunity to go to South Africa , so thought, for grins I'd load the 220s. In that particular rifle, which was throated normal, and in that Mod 70 action I had to seat them pretty deep. Only problem was the load that it shot the best ( don't remember the powder now...) was compressed so my dies left a deep ring/distortion in the nose. Yeah, they shot well, but I was too spooked to use it. I found a used Mod 700 35 Whelen Classic locally and had it reamed to the Ackley, and shot the then new to me Barnes 250X at 2550. The Waters Parted, so to speak. I did give that 06 to a Missionary friend of mine there and 5 boxes of the then available Federal High Energy 180 NPT which went 2970 in that rifle! He shot everything including eland with, how do they say it..".aplomb", ha, so its a great round indeed. I always, since, in any 06 I've had, worked up a good 200 PT load, sometimes a Speer or Sierra 200 but always the PT. So easy to find a good load and great penetrators in an easy to handle caliber ( caveat: "Unless" you were to use my deceased Father in Law's Sears Ted Williams Mod 70 knock-off with the hard plastic buttplate....brutal barely describes it...with 150s!)

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