Home Forums Lever Action Central Marlin 336 Lever Actions 336, 35 rem to 356 win conversion?

I have a Browning BLR in 358, but I don't care for the straight grip stock and the damn magazine hunging below the receiver. I much prefer shooting my pistol grip stocked 336 CS and find that 3 rounds, plus 1 in the chamber, balances the best for me.

Your input is, as always, appreciated, but I think that Regan Nonneman is an excellent 'smith and wouldn't do these conversions if they were dangerous. I use both 356 and 358 brass, but I load the 358 to 356 pressure levels. If you review my posts, you won't find me advocating full pressure 358 loads in a Nonneman conversion. Many people like to push their luck/safety for the sake of a few meaningless FPS of velocity, but you won't count me among them. Heck, if you can hunt, you don't even need to shoot very far in most situations.

BTW, if you know anyone who wants a $425 BLR in 358, tell him/her to email me.

Jeff

I have a 30-30 converted to 307 by Nonneman works great and I would do it again.

The basic fault with the Browning BLR in all its variations and permutations is that it is UGLY.

Well, so are you and you dont see me bashing you! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> Really, ugly? Are you dating your rifles or using them for hunting? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Why ruin a perfectly good Marlin...just buy a Winchester in 356!

It's a Marlin thing. Besides for many people, the geometry of a straight grip stock just doesn't work as well as the pistol grip style. Add to that they fact, and it is a fact, that Marlin 336s are among the most accurate out-of-the-box CF rifles that you can buy and Winchester 94s aren't even in the same area code.

Jeff

Additionally, 356 Win cases can be made from 444 Marlin cases with one pass through tthe 356/358 die and trimming. I have done it hundreds of times. Works great.

Our society has always been eager to sue to get easy money,
and gun mfgs have always been aware of that and always overbuilt because of it. I have converted several 30/30s
to 307, 7mm mags to STWs & 35s to 358s, including my own
XP100, which originally was a 221 fireball; rebarreled to 35,
then rechambered to 358. Milled out receiver port for easy ejection. Don't know of a professional job gone wrong. A professional won't do a job if it will endanger anyone.

264Bore,

NOPE, Marlin also chambered their 336 ER in 356.

This question seems to keep popping up, so I'm going to add my 2 cents' worth.

First, the fact that Marlin does not approve someone rechambering their guns says nothing beyong the fact that they have a good liability lawyer advising them. Virtually every manufacturer says the same thing about adjusting their triggers. Does this mean that their triggers are unsafe after adjustment? Not necessarily--just that they could be made that way by an improper adjustment.

Nowhere in print have I found confirmation that the heat treatment of the 336ER receivers was different than that of receivers for the .444 etc.

Several years ago, I read an article (by Jim Carmichael, IRC) in which the author converted a 336CS in .35 Rem. to what he called the .356 Rimless. The only modification was running a .358 WCF chambering reamer into the existing barrel. He found that .358 WCF cases (not loaded rounds) easily fed and extracted in the Marlin rifle. In the converted rifle, he was easily able to achieve .356 ballistics, without any apparent harm to the rifle or excessive case expansion, etc. He sensibly never tried to match the ballistics of the .358.

This was a pure wildcat cartridge in that he was using .358 cases but loading them at .356 levels. This is a vitally important point. I understand that the safe pressure limit for a Marlin lever action is 44,000 CUP--the level at which the .444 Marlin is loaded. The .358 WCF is loaded to 52,000 CUP. Firing a factory .358 load or the hand-loaded equivalent in a converted 336 is courting disaster. The potential for someone to do exactly that is why Marlin is so adamant that their rifle should not be converted.

The literature on the .307 and .356 WCFs suggested that they were also loaded to 52,000 CUP. Based on the information in various loading manuals, I would say that information is inaccurate. There is little data available for the .356, but the .307 makes an equally instructive example.

Compare the data for 150-grain bullets in both the .308 and the .307. In every case, charges of the same powders and muzzle velocities are significantly lower in the .307. Some people have said that .307 cases have a smaller internal capacity. I doubt it. They are exactly what they appear to be--.308 cases with a small rim. The .307 and .356 were simply loaded at lesser levels and lesser pressures than their rimless cousins just as the 7x57R is loaded to lesser levels than the 7x57. If you doubt this, take a look at the starting loads for the .308, and you will see that they are usually close the the maximum load listed for the .307. And the chamber pressure of those .308 loads is often right around 43,000-44,000 CUP.

There is probably no reason that a 336 should not be converted to a .356, but like any rifle firing a non-standard cartridge, you can't afford to be brainless in the way that you load it. You have to be content to work within the constraints of the Marlin lever action. To do otherwise is to risk a blown-up rifle and personal injury at worst or a ruined action at best.

With above in mind, I have often wondered whether the performance of the .356 could be duplicated or at least approached with the .35 Rem, if it was loaded to the same pressure of 44,000 CUP. After all, it has roughly the same internal capacity as a .300 Savage. That would certainly be a lot easier than rechambering and trying to scrounge up .358 or .356 brass.

Does anyone have a website or phone # for the gentleman who does the 35-356 conversions?

Regan Nonnmean 660.927.3401
Here is his website: Regan Nonnmean
BTW, I recently bought a Nonnmean converted 35 to 356 Win from 260Remguy. I have not had the opportunity to shoot it (just got brass) but 260Remguy vouches for him.
Regan does one heck of a trigger job on Marlins, however. He did one on the 336 I have and it is l-i-g-h-t!
Joe
in Houston

Regan is a great guy to talk to and might be the best Marlin 'smith out there today. I doubt that there is anything that Marlin could tell Regan that he doesn't already know about the 336 series. He does a lot more than the 30-30 to 307 and 35 Rem to 356 conversion. Those jobs are just filler work for when he has other jobs running, like making octagon and 1/2r-1/2o barrels, on his CMC mills.

Jeff

Steelhead

You missed the point- the XTR big bore is a beefed up 94 what i was saying was that both of those cartridges were never chambered, by the original manufacturer, in the weaker, basic 94 action.

Interesting thread! I have a 336A made in 1949 with a badly pitted bore. Is the 1949 action suitable for rebarreling to 356?

What hardness does Nonneman look for in an action? I have a machinist friend who can have hardness testing done for free.

You are correct. Been there and done that.

By the way, for you doubters, those are MARLIN parts lists, not something Numrich/Gun Parts cooked up.

For what it is worth....

SAAMI maximum pressure for the following cartridges is the SAME at 52,000 CUP:

.307 Win
.308 Win
.356 Win
.358 Win
.375 Win

Well, my first post here.

I did a search for this topic - converting a Marlin 336 from 35 Remington to 356 Winchester.

I have brass, dies and bullets for the 356, but sold my Winchester 94AE a while back while unempolyed.

I want to have a 356 chambered levergun, but don't want to pay the price that the Winchesters are going for.

I've read through this thread and I have to say that I agree with 260 Remguy's posts. The 356 Winchester is a much more energetic round than the 35 Remington. For example (from my load books) I see that the the 35 Rem pushes a 200 grain bullet to 2000 fps (rounding up) and the 356 pushes the same bullet past 2500 fps. That's a 25% increase in kinetic energy. But more to the point, the 356 pushes the 220 grain bullets to 2450 vs the 35 Rem's 1900. I don't put all of my faith into kinetic energy but when you have the same bullet, it's a valid parameter for comparison. Especially when you're not out-performing the bullet's construction.

Yes, you can boost the operating pressure of the 35 Rem, but you have the same brass to work with. I'd rather just set the rifle up correctly to use the thicker brass and larger rim diamter of the .356 Win.

I've read in this thread that the Win 94AE's twist rate is 1:12 - really? I don't think that is correct- to my knowledge, it is 1:16 just like all of the other standard 35 calibers.

I've read here that Winchester was the only company to chamber their leverguns in .356 Win - "bzzzz" incorrect - Marlin also chambered the 336 in this caliber (along with .307 Win).

I've read here that Marlin heat treats their actions differently for different calibers - again, I think this is eroneous. It doesn't make any sense either - why would Marlin incurr the extra expense of having different processes when they can heat treat all fo their actions to the highest strength for less money? I'm talking economy of scale.

Finally, I've read that Marlin does not recommend this conversion - no kidding! Why would they? Liability has been mentioned - totally valid. And it also doesn't make good business sense for them - they would be saying in effect "don't buy a new Marlin - use an old one..." Yeah, right - they don't want another sale... nope.

If I can find a good used 336 in 35 Remington, it's going to the gunsmith listed in this thread.

Thanks for the good read and information - made up my mind.

Well, I found a good 336RC to purchase for this conversion. I spoke with Mr. Nonneman (nice guy!) and I can purhcase it and have it shipped to him and then do an ffl transfer when he's done with it - about 6 weeks. :up:

I'm pretty pumped about this - I liked the caliber but I must say that I never really "bonded" with the 94AE. Not sure why but partly because the action wasn't like my other 94's or my Marlins- kinda sticky and would jam occasionally - with a round stuck partway out of the magazine. I didn't like that at all. This is something that my Marlin's have never done.

Again, thanks to all for the information/feedback. I'll be posting pics and range results when I get this.