Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Question for Phil Shoemaker on handguns for Alaska

Not that i'm more knowledgeable than anyone else,but i tote a .45Acp and 230 Win Hp's thru my Glock that i can control weakhanded and we have mountain lion and black bear,but your more likely to either find a snake or alligator than a warmblooded carnivore here.

Would be great to hear Phil speak to this. I'm a pretty big fan of his, I like the "been there, done that", as well as the matter of fact manner in which he presents what has worked for him.

Would also be great to hear from folks who have used the 329 with full power heavy cast bullet loads. It's my understanding, not from experience/ownership, that the owners manual states that cast bullets are verboten. Not to say that these revolvers are not the real deal, just seems to limit options a bit for those who would like the really powerful stuff.

Didn't Brian Pierce do an article on this revolver and loads in Handloader or Successful Hunter a while back?

He proposed some heavy bullet, slow speed stuff that was shootable, IIRC.

I shot my 329 three times with full power loads and did not want to shoot it a fourth time. It hurt. I do carry it every day in the woods or on the farm with reloads that have slightly more zip than a .45 ACP or with rat shot. It sure is lighter than the 629 I have carried for years. I have been up close and personal with a few black bears, wild dogs, and venomous snakes in my life and have never been overly concerned about how much my gun was going to kick in those situations. I have, fortunately, never had to come to blows with any bears. I hope I never do.

BTW --- Thanks to all for their comments and views on the 480R

Ok, I usually carry a GLOCK 10 mm loaded with 15 200 grain hard cast for a back up, or personal defence pistol, most times I camp or hunt far from camp, but if there was a reasonable chance ID see, or be hunting bear ID be carring my 450 marlin BLR loaded with 420 hard cast loaded to about 1700-1800fps as I can,t see useing any pistol as the primairy weapon on some threat that could and would given a chance ,kill you. now Ive have a dan wesson 445 10" super mag revolver, and while its noticably more powerful, its not nearly as handy or easy to carry as a back up, and while Id use that for deer,hogs,ELK or bear from a tree stand where theres some distance and chance to place shots correctly, for instant defence work at unknown ranges or conditions the 450 marlin caliber BLR and 10mm glock combo seems to me to be the better choice..... as going out looking to confront what could be a pissed off bear at spitting distances with a pistol alone seems foolish to me!
that and the fact the 10mm has done excellent work in the past on deer and hogs and seldom requires a second shot, I think its reasonable to assume that with 15 shots on tap from a relieable pistol and no intention of useing a pistol untill the rifles empty ,it seems like a decent choice.

What makes you think that a bear attacking you will give you enough time to fire 15 rounds. Maybe have enough time for one shot before the bear is on you. Bears that feel threatened enough to attack do not dilly dally around..

I don,t THINK the 15 round capacity has a great advantage, thats why I pointed out the 450 MARLIN cal BLR would be my first choice, as I said "if there was a reasonable chance ID see, or be hunting bear ID be carring my 450 marlin BLR loaded with 420 hard cast loaded to about 1700-1800fps as I can,t see useing any pistol as the primairy weapon on some threat that could and would given a chance ,kill you but I also don,t see the advantage of carring a heavy caliber pistol IF youve got the 45 cal rifle....which in my opinion makes more sence to carry for protection,and Id be far more likely to be carring that glock 10mm on my belt than a heavy caliber revolver as a "BACK UP" and while its not my first choice in bear stoppers Id rather have the 10mm in my hand with its 15 shots than a 44 or 45 caliber thats far more effective in theory, if that revolvers more than likey sitting back in camp because if IM carrying the 450 marlin carbine, that would be with me,and the smaller easier to carry glock would be fasr more likey to go along, given the threat/risk.
look all IM saying is if theres a reasonable chance your going toe to toe with a bear a heavy 458 caliber fast firing carbine sure beats any handgun for potential accurate shot placement and punch when your under stress, but having a back-ups not a bad idea.

Try geeting that rifle in action from a sleeping bag inside of a tent with a unwelcomed bera for a guest.. I tak a bore bore revolver thank you..

Hunting the North Slope Of Alaska

Also, I'm curious what holster(s) types Phil uses for his revolvers. Hip, or chest?

jwp475
your point about defending your butt from inside the tent at close quarters is certainly valid, but I think your under estimating the punch of a 10mm, while its certainly not a power house like a 44mag, 445 SUPER MAG,454 cassul or 500 S&W it does have the necessary punch to break thru a bears skull or drive deep enought to be fatal with the correct ammo at point blank ranges and while your correct that the larger caliber revolvers hit harder, either choice sure beats being unarmed,and either choice would prove fatal to the bear if you had the chance to start pumping shots into him,as fast as you can while repelling unwanted tent partners, so it comes down to shot placement,either caliber shot thru the skull or into the spine should prove fatal quickly,
yes, your more likely to drive a single bullet deeper with the revolvers, but if given a chance, the 10mm certainly would prove quickly fatal, Ive killed enough deer and hogs with my 10mm to know its certainly capable of shooting thru a hogs shoulders or head.(BEEN THERE DONE THAT SEVERAL TIMES)
double tap sells a 230 grain hard cast load at 1120 fps for the 10mm

http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_25&products_id=158

while thats certainly not my first choice in bear repellants Id be pumping a near full auto steam of bullets if forced into that confrontation given the chance, and a single hit could reach the vitals

I think that if a nighttime attack was to occur that the ability to attach a tactical flashlight to the handgun would be a plus.

Here is an interesting article that illustrates that most any decent gun-in-hand that you can use well (and a flashlight) in a somewhat proven manstopper caliber beats no gun at all - and quite nicely in this case despite what armchair theorists may say - at least this guy, if not ideally equipped, was obviously somewhat in the ballpark with caliber and ammo and had opportunity to use the extra capacity:

Does anyone remember the video of the DNR guy that was pulled down from a release pen? When they were turning loose the problem bear,
it started mauling the ranger and he killed it with a 357 .
I think that if I had to get an animal off the top of me it would need to be a DA revolver of good caliber.
I wonder if an auto would work if it was pressed hard into flesh and hide ,while pulling the trigger?

IN 1960, I worked in Montana for a college summer job (Glacier National Park). We had a particularly nasty bear attack (a ranger, another ranger's son and a tourist) and I was on the rescue crew. That Saturday, I purchased a Ruger Flat-top 44 Magnum in Kalispell and carried it in a WW2 medic back-pack when I was working alone in grizzly country. I was treed by an old sow and I used the Ruger to put her down (did not tell anyone at the time since carrying in a National Park and killing an animal were felonies). Another trail crew dynamited a grizzly that kept coming into camp at night, was caught and not re-hired in 1961)

In 1961, I again worked in Glacier and was fishing in the backcountry (Lake Isabel) and had caught about 25 good-sized cut-throats. I heard someone behind me, picked up the string of fish and announced my catch. Just then I smelled a rotten mixture of decaying meat and vomit and just lowered the fish into the lake and waded in up to my waist (bears don't bathe and use Right-Guard, so they smell!). The Ruger was on the bank in my pack. The pucker factor went to 6 on the 5 point scale.

I traded the Ruger in the mid-60's for something more comfortable to shoot. It was light and with the heavy Norma loads then available, it was punishing - the web between my right thumb and fore-finger would bleed from the hammer's impact on recoil. Along the same lines, I've seen S&W 329's in the used section of shops and I'll just bet that they've only been fired 4-5 rounds! Today, I carry a 4" S&W 629 in the woods; it is light enough and the recoil is not painful.

Light weight is great for carrying, but painful for practice. On the other hand, when the chips are really down, you might not care about or feel any pain!

DJS - great stories, you should write these up for a magazine! Do you carry the stanard heavy barrel 4" 629 or a Mountain Gun?

Interesting story but with this line in it " As it turned out, the .40-caliber 180-grain Corbon hollowpoints at 1300 fps were enough to take down a bear in short order." I question what really happened at all. 1300 fps with a 180 in a Glock is a pipe dream. 1000 fps is a max load. Corbon doesn't even load a 180 40 S&W round! That's a hot load from a 10mm!

All this notwithstanding, there is no doubt that a heavy 40 cal bullet would do a lot of damage to a bear. Even a 9mm would be better than a fly-swatter!


Now that I re-read the story, it doesn't say that it was indeed a 40 S&W- I took that for granted- it could have been a 10mm indeed.
I have only seen a handgun used in bear defense one time where a round was fired. While fishing on Arizona's Black River, an aggressive bear ( a large one too) walked straight towards us and at 50 feet my buddy dropped his pole and unholstered his 45 ACP. At 20 feet he put one round into the water in front of the bear. The bear turned and trotted off- problem solved. I've had them stare me down but never had to fire a round thank God!

This always brings out lively debate. I don't have any experience with Brown bears, but I have extensive experience with black bears, and even been in two fights at bad breath range, while armed with a handgun.

When the time comes, the best you can hope for is 1-3 shots that really need to be accurate. If you get more, then great for you.

Cartridge and handgun weight needs to be balanced and determined by your ability to deliver fast, precise shots.

Everyone is in search of the ultimate lightweight powerhouse for comfort of carry. Might I remind you: A defensive gun must first be COMFORTING, comfort is very distant second.

If you have to carry a heavier gun, keep perspective. Handgun weight can almost always be offset by high quality gunleather.

Look to the gun for the comforting part; and look to the gunleather for the comfort part. But don't get the wrong gun to save a few ounces.

You know, America is the only place on earth that would think of carrying a handgun for defense against a brown bear. If you suggested a handgun for defense against lion in Africa, you would be called a lunatic and quietly lead away from the savannah. A brown bear could floss it's teeth with a lion, but we Americans think a handgun is sufficient...or at least we delude ourselves into such thoughts so we're not inconvenienced with a proper rifle. A PH I once met was mauled by a brown bear, after it had soaked up 4 rounds of .375 H&H and 3 rounds of .338 WinMag from both hunters, yet we still have those who go into brown bear country armed only with a handgun.

Kevin, I have been using a 475 Linebaugh since 88 the first year they were available. I have also used a 338 since the mid 80s and I love a 338. But do not dismiss the a 475 or 500 revolver as not being adequate to stop a bear as well as many rifles including a 338 or 375.


The bear on the left came in on me and one of my hunting partners in 88 and Jim shot first with his 338 and the I fired with the 475 and the 475 flattened that bear with a body shot. IMPRESIVE to say the lest and it left as large if not larger wound than did the 338





I know that smaller calibers have worked but I would rather have a bigger bore and resulting would channel..

jwp - congratulations. I happen to be a fan of the .475 Linebaugh, but I'm still not sure I would feel comfortable having it as my primary weapon.

In one of the fights I was in, stopped the bear with body shots from a .357 which did the trick just fine. The other one was stopped, much quicker with a .44 mag.

I know handguns can get the job done, but I'm still not convinced they're the correct tool for the job.

Regardless, a handgun sure beats the heck out of nothing.

Kevin over the years I have taken quite a few head of game with the 475 and 500 revolvers and as time goes on they never cease to amaze me with their performance on game. There is no dought in my mind that if loaded with a proper flat point hard cat bullet or a Punch bullet they will get the job done if you place the bullet in the kill zone (the same goes for a rifle). There are no free lunchs one must put the bullet in the correct location whether a rifle or revolver and for this type of handgun gun performance in a packable package they comes with alot of recoil...