Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles Some possibly useful info on BSA rifles...

My first rifle, at age 14, was a 30.06, which Dad bought from the widow next door (really!) for $20 about 1968.

It's an Enfield carrying the BSA logo. These are quite common in Canada. A tidbit of info regarding these for anyone who owns one...

I had it customized about 20 years ago. It always had a bit of trouble feeding, the bolt would slip by the shell unless you worked it vigorously. The gunsmith related some history for me, which explained this problem.

Several versions known as P17s were built in the US for their military in 30.06, one of them by Remington. I'd assumed, because this gun is 30.06, that it also was a P17.

Not so.

Rifles bearing the BSA logo are based upon P14 Enfields which were built in 1914 for England going into WW1. They were built as .303 British, but not to be confused with Lee Enfields, an entirely different rifle.

Apparently BSA at some time after the war modified numbers of these rifles with sport stocks (of that era), and to several calibers, mostly 30.06, I assume for the North American market.

The reason 30.06 shells feed poorly is that the magazine is designed for width appropriate for the rimmed .303, which is slightly larger in diameter than the 30.06. In fact, just enough larger that the 30.06 staggers too much to the point of almost jamming in the magazine. Essentially the magazine is about 1/8 to 3/16 of an inch too wide for 30.06 cartridges. Working the bolt with energy literally snaps the loads free enough for the follower spring to lift them into place to be picked up by the bolt.

At that time, some 20 years ago, there was no marketed cure for this, at least that neither the gunsmith nor I could come up with.

What I did do, however, was cut up some plastic from a bleach bottle and built a relatively slippery shim for the side of the magazine, which worked not too bad. Not perfect, but better. Mickey Mouse to be sure, but it's an otherwise great shooting rifle, with one of strongest Mauser style actions ever built. Indeed the metal in the action is so hard the gunsmith had a helluva time getting any kind of bluing to work on it.

One other tip...

The original trigger is a military type 2 stage, which is just awful. I ordered a Dayton Traister trigger for it in the early '70s, which didn't work at all 'cause it was made for a P17. I determined the problem, sent it back to Dayton Traister suggesting a cure, which, while mystified, they did and returned, and it's worked great ever since. I learned the history of the rifle some time after this, so I don't know to this day whether Dayton Traister is aware of the difference between the two types of rifles.

Anyway, there's still lots of these rifles around up here in Canada, they're darn good guns, and I thought maybe this might be of interest to some.

I think you will fit in just fine here.

Thanks! ;-)

True story about that ol' BSA, before I customized it.

Living in Lloydminster, Alberta at the time. Friend talked me into going to a turkey shoot at the local gun club, a first for me.

Couple days before I had him hand-load a couple boxes of Sierra GameKings for me, 180 gr. as I recall. No trial and error testing, just wanted relatively precision loads...in those days ammo was nothing like we can buy today, eh?

On the morning of the shoot I zeroed the gun at 100 yards.

The deal was, 10 shooters, $2 each, 3 shots, best score gets the bird.

There were some damn impressive rifles being toted about, Sakos, Weatherbys, monster scopes, what you'd expect...and me with this old BSA 1914 era "common man's" rifle, with a 3x9 Bushnell Scopechief on it no less.

3 of us scored 30s...but I shot the tightest group and took home the prize. I noticed my old iron was getting a tad bit of silent interest.

While later, with at least a 15 mph crosswind now whipping up dust everywhere, someone suggests we go 200 yds. Okay, I'm in for my second go at a turkey.

I held over 3 inches, and 3 inches into the wind. 2 guys with their fancy .223s didn't hit the paper. I scored 27, and won again. Considerably more staring at my obviously crude and ancient weapon. I was very modest and polite nevertheless.

Naturally, I quit while I was ahead.

Heh!

Another note about the 303 P14 magazine is they are angled (or they have a guide rib to facilitate the angle). Reason being the 303 is a rimmed cartridge and this angle allows the cases to stack up without the rims touching. When a P14 is converted to a magnum case (very common) a P17 magazine is often substituted. I used to have a BSA converted Enfield P14 in the original 303...nicely done with a Rem M720 style bolt handle and classic sporter stock. The BSA Model D.
I will try and attach a catalog picture.

Thanks! I'm interested in the history of this series of rifles, and like to learn anything I can.

The gunsmith told me these actions are strong enough to handle any magnum that will fit the magazine.

I think Parker Hale for a time used these actions, or a variation thereof, too.

I left the original dog leg bolt handle on mine when it was made over. Thought it was functional, and preserved the character of the rifle somewhat.

I've seen one BSA version of this in .270 as well.

One other interesting tidbit also related to me by the gunsmith...

He pointed to a marking low on the action that indicated the action itself was actually manufactured in Germany...??? I assume this, if true, would mean it was made prior to the outbreak of hostilities in WW1. I don't know how to confirm this one way or the other...but certainly adds some mystique.

I think your gunsmith is mistaken.A few years back for a while there was forum for the "Enfields" M1917,P-13,P-14,M-30 and M-720.I found it after I bought a Eddystone P-17 sporter for $65.That was before the registration came in. I learned much about the history.
Canada bought 100,000 30-06 P-17s,mine was one of them,it even had the C-broadarrow.It was made the third week of September 1918. We called them P-17s.

Britain received a bunch of M-1917(30-06s) during Lend-Lease,but hardly any ammo. My two BSAs were made over M-1917s. I also have a Winchester P-14 303 to compare.The bottom metal is different.As is the extractor,ejector,and magazine.The floorplates interchange though.

The Enfields except for the P-13 were made in USA,in three factories,Eddystone(ERA),Remington, and Winchester. They were designed at Enfield armory England. The round was 7mm like the .280Ross. British powder wasn't up to the task.

Feeding round nose ammo has always been a problem for the '17,it was redesigned for the 150gr pointed 30-06. If you add shoulder strips in the box and break the edge of the follower like a FN Mauser,I found my Eddystone feeds 308Norma great.

One of the BSAs is staying 30-06,the other has become a 358Norma to match the Eddystone.

After Googling far enough, I came up with this...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1917_Enfield_rifle

Which provides further links on the history.

Short version is:

Enfield developed the design.

The P14, specifically a .303 British, was farmed out to US manufacturers.

The P17 was developed in 1917 for the US military for 30.06.

Interestingly, the article notes that the P17 could hold 6 30.06 cartridges due its smaller diameter case...as does my own.

Really going to dig into this now. The Internet didn't even exist last time I though much about it. In fact, I just tracked down BSA's website, and sent them off an email on the long shot that they might entertain sending me back a bit of history regarding their own involvement with this particular breed of rifles.

These rifles obviously have a long and gloried history behind them.

They are quality rifles,partically the Remingtons,about like a pre-war M-70 Winchester.They were made of the same nickle steel as the pre-war M-70.The M-1917 was the main batlle rifle of US in WWI. General Hatcher considered them the best battle rifle of WWI.

Outside of the looks and weight,the weakness were gas handling and ejector spring breakage. Careful loading solves the first and these people sell a kit for the ejector http://www.e-gunparts.com/.

Couple of pics of my Enfield...

sir springer,
I'm also a fan of sorts of the large M17/P14 actions with two M17s (30/06 Win sporter and 308 Eddystone target rifle) and a Remington P14 (303/25 sporter) in the safe. Your gunsmith is right in that the P14 will handle some monster cartridges and do it arguably better than the M17. To understand why you need to look at the bolt faces side by side ... the P14 when opened gives a greater bearing area due to the lugs being a different shape.

My thoughts on a gunsmiths greatest achievement is to do something totally different and unique. On my "to do" list for example is to convert the P14 I own in 303/25 to the much more useful (to me) 400/350NE. Getting a bolt actioned rifle to feed and utilise a rimmed cartridge is high in the "cool" factor stakes for me.
Cheers...
Con

Exactly the problem I've had with my BSA-sporterized P-14:

I picked it up for a song, and it had already been d&t'd and had a Timney trigger installed. It's a bit heavy (would make a good .375. Hmm....) but nice and accurate.

Do you have pics of your mod? I've also heard of a kit from Dayton-Traister but I don't know anyone who's used it.

Stuart

I don't have any pictures.For the price of a camera,I could buy a rifle. But you should bump into me at the range,there's good likelyhood,that I'll have one Enfields along.

The Enfield follower has a sharp line for the stagger. The FN Mausers,one was a '51 30-06 and the other a '68 264WM,have the same follower. It starts with a "hard" edge,but as it moves toward the breech, it softens to almost a roll-over.That sounds much more extreme than what you feel with your finger.This allows the base to engage earlier,lining up the cartridge better.

The strips: When I got the Eddystone it had them in.They are about .020 x .250,I think it came like that??It's a September 1918 rifle.So I had Bill add them to the BSA when he rebarrreled to 358Norma. He used .035 x .500. They keep the cartidges back.