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Sleestacks still give me the willies. That darned hissing.


Penguin, love reading your posts. You help us 80-90 IQ folks learn a thing or two.

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Originally Posted by rrroae
Sleestacks still give me the willies. That darned hissing.


Penguin, love reading your posts. You help us 80-90 IQ folks learn a thing or two.


,.. but they just turn the 55 to 70 folks into azzholes.

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What you do you expect from U.S. corporations?


I expect them to go after short term profits with no regard for impacts on America, world political stability, or, for that matter their own long-term finacial stability. Why should I expect any different? That is how they always behaved. They are totally incapable of restraining themselves. That is why there is a need for some government regulation.


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Do you expect them to be competitive with corporations from around the world? Are you happier if Airbus lands the big contact or Boeing?


Airbus is heavily subsidized and probably could not compete otherwise (sure seem to be a lot of the falling out of the air). A import tarriff to offset the subsidy would allow Boeing to compete on a level playing ground. Encounter a subsidy, impose a tarriff. That's the kind of regulation that global corporatism needs.

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Do you expect them to lose money for the good of a few, or should they just stick to making profits for their shareholders?


A corporation exists to make money, but maximum profits at the expense of economic stability is unwise. Remember the story about the farmer who killed the goose to get the golden eggs? America is that goose. The eggs will keep coming at their own pace, you can't rip them out all at once.


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Are they supposed to be patriots?


How would you feel about McDonald / Douglas if they had opened an aircraft factory in Japan in 1942? You dance with the one that brung ya'.


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Corporations have a long history of being helpful to US intelligence. Or is that just another example of Big Brother?


When they are spying on American citizens, yes.

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Us corps donate millions to non-profits and charities in this country.


And receive tax deductions for those contributions.

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Someone in an earier post actually said, "My Fortune 400 employer matched our 401k contribution with company stock and that stock fell from $90 to $20..." Boo Hoo


That was me, actually, but save your tears. I always converted my stock to a diversified fund. When the stock tanked I bought back in at the bottom and sold out when the stock peaked over $90 again. I did quite well. You gotta love capitalism.


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State what it is that you're PO'd about or move on


What I am "PO'd" aboutis the lack of government regulation of corporate behavior that destabilizes our country, I am not mad at the corporations, they are what they are and act accordingly when not restrained, one may as well get mad at the wind for blowing. They main culprits here are our elected representatives who have sold themselves to corporate interests and no longer serve the people who elected them to office.

And, I will move on when it suits me and not before, thank you very much, cap'n. smirk








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[quotePardon me if I suggest that's rather outdated thinking. The power to control information and technology will determine who rules the roost going forward, not who has the most pig iron production.
] [/quote]

Manufacturing will never be outdated. Computer chips and circuit boards still have to be manufactured. And we are losing ground rapidly in the technology sector. I'd be willing to bet that 99% of the circuity components in my computer (and yours, too) came from Asia. Perhaps software design? Write up a new whiz bang program and see how long it takes for the Chineese to pitate it, and what recourse would you have when they did? No one else is playing by the rules that we do, and they are screwing us to death.


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SEE WHAT YOU DID! HE LET HIS "SPECIAL FRIENDS" MOVE IN! There goes the neighborhood.


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Originally Posted by Bristoe
I've tried to find something positive about McCain,.. but the man just won't work with me.

I'm in the same boat, kinda. I'll pledge to cast my vote for John McCain if he will promise to not invade my consciousness between now and election day. I don't think he can do it.


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Yes I would vote for him again to. When is it going to occur to the Dumbocrats that there are a lot of people that want nothing to do with some of their nonsence?

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I expect them to go after short term profits with no regard for impacts on America, world political stability, or, for that matter their own long-term finacial stability. Why should I expect any different? That is how they always behaved. They are totally incapable of restraining themselves. That is why there is a need for some government regulation.

Why should they have to, or need to, "restrain themselves" at all? So they can measure up to your idea of global fairness?

Airbus is heavily subsidized and probably could not compete otherwise (sure seem to be a lot of the falling out of the air).

Can you cite an example of this for us?

A corporation exists to make money, but maximum profits at the expense of economic stability is unwise. Remember the story about the farmer who killed the goose to get the golden eggs? America is that goose. The eggs will keep coming at their own pace, you can't rip them out all at once.

Your analogy is a little confused at best...how does the pursuit of "maximum profits" alter economic stability? Do you mean the corporation's stability or are you referring to the US economy, or do you have any idea what you're talking about? Do you think we would have a stronger national economy with more govt restriction? Is the farmer supposed to be US industry? So, US industry is supposed to have killed America in some metaphorical way, trying to grab more than its fair share of golden eggs? So you want to provide subsidies to these murderers? What about non-US businesses, are they stealing any of our eggs? What if the non-US business builds a better product, should we be stuck subsidizing inferior US goods? Should we roll back the clock to 1978 to see how that worked out for the US auto industry? Should all competition be stopped at the border? Does the concept of supply and demand in a worldwide econonmy mean anything to you?

How would you feel about McDonald / Douglas if they had opened an aircraft factory in Japan in 1942? You dance with the one that brung ya'.

Your arguement loses a lot of credibility when you throw spurious statements like this into the discussion. I have no idea what point you're attempting to make here, in 1941, the US govt placed an embargo against Japan on steel and oil, that would take care of my Japanese aircraft factory. Are you talking about placing govt restrictions upon Corporations doing business with countries with whom we fighting a war? I don't think you'll get much arguement there, but how does this have anything to do with the assertions that you made above?

Corporations have a long history of being helpful to US intelligence. Or is that just another example of Big Brother?

"When they are spying on American citizens, yes."

Most US corporations do the majority of their business and receive that majority of their profits, from outside of the US. I suspect that those contacts that are made by US business abroad are much more valuable to US intel than lists of phone calls made from US lines to those in Pakistan, just using it as one example. If it means spying on US traitors, I'm ok with that too.

Us corps donate millions to non-profits and charities in this country.

"And receive tax deductions for those contributions."

So because US corporations get a $ 0.35 tax deduction on each $1.00 they pay out for charitable purposes, you think that's a self serving act on their part? I guess even if they try to do something decent, for some people they're still damned if they do and they're damned if they don't

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Originally Posted by Steve_NO
Pardon me if I suggest that's rather outdated thinking. The power to control information and technology will determine who rules the roost going forward, not who has the most pig iron production.

US industrial output still dwarfs all our competitors, in any case.


Steve I don't mean to pick on you, or to take a stick to a laboring horse, but this is exactly the kind of thinking that has led to our current economic problems.

We have heard everyone from Roach, to Schiff, to Kudlow, all the way up to Bernanke (as of yesterday) decry the fall of the dollar. We have rampant inflation on the necessities and people are starting to feel like the Fed needs to woe things up a bit and get this free fall under control.

At the same time we hear some of these same geniuses, usually from a right of center position, telling us that trade deficits don't matter. That America needs to grow past the point of being an industrial power. We'll do the thinking, they do the sweating.

I'm a scientist, not an Ivy League economist, but it seems to me like simple logic tells you that these two positions cannot be maintained at the same time.

As the years have passed and we continued to run a huge trade deficit without economic collapse I watched as some very smart and very educated men started to wonder if maybe it didn't matter. Maybe we could do the impossible and make it work. I think now these guys are starting to wake up to reality.

When you run the kind of huge trade deficits that we have the past couple decades you, by necessity, have to create additional money. If you do not you will watch the monetary base stagnate or even shrink. But as time goes by you start to export your inflation to the countries who now sit on huge piles of what used to be your money.

So far they have used the money different ways: financing our national debt (better for them as it makes debt slaves out of the very nation), buying up American industries and infrastructure, building up their military might, etc. In other words these counties are financing America into debtor's prison through the money we are sending them via our trade deficit.

Kind of ironic, no?

We would have never gotten away with it had it not been for the fact that the dollar is used as the reserve currency around the world. But the really ironic part is that because of having this status we were allowed to run very unhealthy levels of debt. And wake up 25 years later in a position similar to that of Brazil a decade or so back. Maybe even as bad as Argentina. Remember what the IMF made them do to get their fiscal house in order? Very painful medicine.

I look around after a couple decades of sending our production overseas and I see lots of other countries sitting on, literally, piles of money that reach to the sky. I see my own country in a hole that I really don't know if we can dig out of. I see these foreign companies buying up blue chip American companies, allowing America's government to go head over heels in debt to them, and I see the same Supply Side ideologues telling me that everything is just fine.

It boggles the mind.

Will


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Originally Posted by TomSmith


Airbus is heavily subsidized and probably could not compete otherwise (sure seem to be a lot of the falling out of the air).

Can you cite an example of this for us?



Sure:

http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/01/18/business/airbus.php

Another article about Regional Jets. Long so just go down to where it talks about government subsidies. Not a problem since we don't really need to build airplanes in this country :-)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embraer

Piper

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For all those who would vote for GWB a third term.....

Difference of opinion makes poor land sell and ugly girls get married........

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Originally Posted by Bristoe
Originally Posted by rrroae
Sleestacks still give me the willies. That darned hissing.


Penguin, love reading your posts. You help us 80-90 IQ folks learn a thing or two.


,.. but they just turn the 55 to 70 folks into azzholes.




nah I was already an azzhole before I took those IQ enhancement tests that bumped me into the 50's



you keep getting insulted on the "innanet" and you liable to take up drinkin vodka and shine and riding motorcicles and corrupting Canadian girls..........oops, nevermind


"This ain't dress rehearsal....it's the life you get to live, make it a good one."

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Originally Posted By: Steve_NO
Antlers, when you make the day shift there at Blockbuster, I'll maybe care about your opinions on world leaders and their facial expressions. Because, I'm sure, you've accomplished so much.





Quote
Do 'you' have ANYTHING substantive to add to discussions with me? Or are personal insults and attacks directed at me the 'best' that 'you' can do?




I can't really speak for Steve but my opinion on the subject, in answer to your two questions are, in order: No. Yes.

Quote
Quote
Originally Posted By: tjm10025

This is a pretty good thread.

It would be a better thread if some of you guys - and you know who you are - would stop feeding the troll.

- Tom



Troll? Is that 'your' definition of somebody that disagrees with you on politics? Can 'you' contribute anything other than name-calling?


As with the above, I can't really speak for somebody else but I think we all know the answers are, in sequence...Yes. No.

smirk

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Bush will be remembered from the right as the president that squandared a great opportunity. Republican president, republican congress for a number of years...and out of that came what? Campaign finance reform and Ted Kennedy's education bill?

Pretty underwhelming there for the legislation that will go on for decades if not longer.

Great opportunity and he flushed it down the toilet.


Exactly.

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Originally Posted By: Steve_NO
Antlers, when you make the day shift there at Blockbuster, I'll maybe care about your opinions on world leaders and their facial expressions. Because, I'm sure, you've accomplished so much.
Quote
Originally Posted By: antlers

Do 'you' have ANYTHING substantive to add to discussions with me? Or are personal insults and attacks directed at me the 'best' that 'you' can do?
Quote
Originally Posted By: Steve_NO

Its all you get, kid, unless you got something better than recycled MoveOn Code Pink quotes.







Translation: I don't have any objective response to your arguments and the best I can do is take bits and pieces of your posts and build them into an unrealistic representation of you and then attack it. Law School 101, you know.

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Penguin, I just have to say I've enjoyed reading most of your content on this thread and agree with a lot of it. Very edifying to me also.

FWIW I think that you've taken issues that some of us know in our hearts and clarified them in our minds, putting words down that some of us don't have due to our limited knowledge of actual economic theory.

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Airbus is heavily subsidized and probably could not compete otherwise (sure seem to be a lot of the falling out of the air).

Can you cite an example of this for us?

This article doesn't support your position very strongly. While the cite you posted does state that Airbus received a subsidy to build this brand new mega-plane, the article also stated the following,

"Airbus counters that Boeing is receiving aid from the Pentagon and from Washington State to develop the 7E7. The two sides recently agreed to try to negotiate a settlement."

So, if Boeing is also getting federal and state subsidies, shouldn't that create the equal playing field you're hoping for?

The article goes on to say,

"In fact, the A380's parts are produced in about 15 factories in Britain, Germany, Spain and France, as well as in the United States and other countries. In a daunting logistical exercise, they are transported by plane, train, barge and truck to the vast assembly hall here in southwestern France."


So these "foreign" competitors are really made up of many countries..including our own, I take it we can sacrifice the US subcontractors on this project so that we can prop up another US company with taxpayer money. Who gets to decide which companies we get to save? Is that where the lobbyists come into play?

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