Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Africa 165gr or 180gr Swift A-Frame in 30-06

For african plains game would you use a 180gr Swift A-Frame @ 2750fps or the 165gr A-Frame @ 2900fps in the 30-06. The old standard for the 30-06 was a 180gr cup & core bullet at 2750fps for african plains game. Others on this board have reported excellent results with the 165gr & 168gr TSX @ 2900fps in the 30-06 for african plains game. With the Swift A-Frame bullets is it better to keep the weight up or drop the weight a little and increase the velocity?

ar: Good post.Wonder about that one myself

ar,

I always kept the weight up because plains game are often targets of opportunity, and you don't know if it will be an elephant or an aardvark around the next bush. Not that you would shoot either one, but you might want more penetration.

I remember reading in Man/Magnum once that they recommended you not shoot a bull eland with a .300 H&H and 180 gr bullets but a cow would be OK.

In other words, both will probably work, and don't worry about splitting such hairs.

jim

What little hunting I did with a .30-06 shame on me, I did with the Federal 165 gr TBBC load. That load just shot very well in the rifle I had. My guess is that you would not be able to tell the difference, shoot what ever one shoots best. Like Jin said, its really splitting hairs.

The 180gn Swift A-Frame loaded in the .30/06 is a great combination. I also found it extremely accurate in that cartridge using H 4350.

JW

Here's my goto load for my '06. Used it in Africa as well as all over NA:

Cartridge Load Information
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Load Name: 30-06 Africa Load
Bullet Mfg: Swift
Bullet Type: A-frame
Bullet Caliber: .308
Bullet Weight: 180
Ballistic Coeff: 0.400
Powder Mfg: IMR
Powder Type: 4831
Powder Weight: 55.000
Powder Lot Number: Unknown
Primer Mfg: FEDERAL
Primer Size: 215 LRM
Primer Type:
Primer Lot Number: unknown
Case Mfg: Remington
Case Length: 0.000
Case # Times Loaded: 0
Cartridge OAL: 0.000
Comparator OAL: 0.000
Av. Group size: 0.994
Av. Group Velocity: 2438
Cartridge Mfg Date:
Cartridge Lot Number:
Moly Coated: No
Crimped: No

Shot String Data
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
# 1) X Distance: -0.375 Y Distance: 1.112 Radius: 1.174 Velocity: 2417
# 2) X Distance: 0.162 Y Distance: 1.337 Radius: 1.347 Velocity: 2408
# 3) X Distance: -0.313 Y Distance: 1.500 Radius: 1.532 Velocity: 2442
# 4) X Distance: 0.100 Y Distance: 1.612 Radius: 1.616 Velocity: 2452
# 5) X Distance: 0.262 Y Distance: 1.875 Radius: 1.893 Velocity: 2473

Not quite as fast as your's, but it works nonetheless.

First let me say that I don't even own a 30/06, but I've hunted with JJHack twice in RSA and he sees more game shot in a year than any of us normal hunters do in many years. Jim has tried several different bullets in his loaner 30/06 and now uses 165 Gr. TSX exclusively. He really likes this bullet and has posted quite a few reports here re: his experiences in RSA with the TSX. He's probably in RSA now or he woulde be singing it's praises himself.

Bottom line is either will work and use the one that shoots best in your rifle.

Hi...

I was faced with this EXACT decision myself several months ago...

However, I decided to try the 180 gr. Partition in both our rifles...They shot very accurately and I decided to stay with the PARTITION and I'm glad we did...

Our two PH's were totally impressed with the 180 grain PARTITIONS...

We had 11 of 12 pass-throughs...

And 11 of 12 one-shot kills....

Shot distances averaged about 150 yards...

The Partitions busted through shoulders and everything and we were very happy on its performance on all our plains game...

Give them a try too...

Just thought I'd pass this along for information sakes...

But I wish you good luck on your bullet of choice!

I don't feel you can go wrong using the Swift A Frame which ever way you go. I have used 180 grain Swift A Frames in my 300 Win Mag to take larger plains game (eland, waterbuck, kudu, gemsbok) with excellent results. On Spring Buck it exited but had good expansion

I have used 350 gr A Frames in 416 on Buffalo of which one was a one shot kill. All of these A Frames hade 80% weight retention.

IMHO, Swift A Frames are as good as it gets

It depends on the terrain, if its thick bushveld i would use the 180gr more open, longer shots the 165.

Basically the best 30-06 round is the Federal high energy 180gr Trophy Bonded Bear Claw. It runs right around 2,900fps and should retain 80-90% of its initial weight. If this round shoots accuratley in your rifle this is what i would bring to Africa. Handloaders cant even get close to this kind of velocity in an 06 and it turns the 06 into a 300 win mag.

Since the A frame opens to a somewhat larger frontal area after full expansion than the TSX bullet I would opt for more bullet weight to assist in penetration. I have seen big bull Eland stop 200gr TSX .338's and 180gr 30cal TSX's from exiting and a similar weight TSX will out penetrate the same weight A Frame and I like exit wounds. If Eland is on the table, and probably even Zebra I would go 180. If neither of these two notorious bullet stoppers is on the agenda then a 165 Aframe will be OK. Why not the Barnes TSX?

Zebra will probably be on the agenda, along with kudu and wildebeast. I don't think that I will be hunting eland. I have not tried the TSX's in my rifle to see if it likes them but from what JJHACK and others have said I guess I should give them a chance.

AR,
I make no claims to be an expert, but I'll give you my 2 cents.

If you really want to experiment with different bullets, then by all means, give the TSX a try. However, if you're looking for a good bullet that will get the job done and you don't want to spend a ton of time looking at a bunch of different bullets in your rifle, then I would simply go with the 180 grain Swift A-Frame. The A-Frame is well known and well respected in Africa and no one will second guess your choice when you get there. Because the A-Frame is a lead core bullet, I'd stick with the 180 grain unless you find that it doesn't shoot well in your rifle. You'll get better penetration (theoretically) with 180gr over 165gr and you won't give up all that much in trajectory. I think you'll appreciate the heavier weight on the zebra and the wildebeast. No knocks on the TSX here, but the A-Frame is just fine, even though you don't see as many people singing it's praises as you do the TSX.
Test

I can't see that it would make much difference either way.

On paper, the 165 grain load has about 9% more energy and the 180 grain has about 7% more momentum and just a bit flatter trajectory. Big deal.

With premium bullets of the same construction, how would any game animal tell the difference.

I opted for the best of both worlds--180 grain in a .300 Weatherby. Flat enough trajectory for any African purpose.

I used the 180 gr. Swifts on one plainsgame hunt and shot a number of animals with it. I also use the 225 gr. Swifts in my .338..My problem with Swifts bullets is too much of a good thing, they make these neat "smooth" little mushrooms, but sometimes they don't tear up enough stuff and you don't get the best of blood trails, even with my .338...

After using about every bullet I could think of I settled on the wonderful 200 gr. Nosler at 2700 FPS in my gun, and it works on all plainsgame with perfection, including Eland..I also use if for Mule Deer and elk in both my 06 and my 300 H&H...It is a much overlooked bullet, but you can drive it as fast as the 180 in a good handload...