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Barak Offline OP
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(See links in source)

They really didn't have to wreck the house, but they did it anyway.

There was no tactical advantage to be gained by perforating the house with tear gas grenades (one of which remained, for a long time, embedded in an attic vent), blowing out five windows, leaving part of the ceiling collapsed and the whole house uninhabitable because of the suffocating residue left by the gas attack.

As the residents of the home on South Oak Cliff drive in Dallas insisted, the murder suspect sought by the SWAT team � 18-year-old Cristobal Jaimes � wasn't there. As Cristobal's father Francisco pointed out to the local ABC affiliate, the family cooperated fully with the SWAT team, consenting to a search of the home and staying out of the way.

For their part, the SWAT operators followed established procedures. This meant that, despite being clad in body armor, carrying high-performance weapons, and dramatically outnumbering their quarry, the officers proceeded at a glacial pace. For more than a half hour, they ran remote cameras into several rooms of the house and otherwise took care to avoid a direct confrontation with an individual they believed to be armed and potentially dangerous.

It was only after they had established, to something approximating a moral certainty, that Cristobal wasn't in the home, that the SWAT team began the tear gas fusillade. When that failed to flush out the suspect, the officers gathered their gear and drove away, leaving the Jaimes family with a devastated and uninhabitable home and without a word of apology.

As far as the Dallas PD was concerned, the department had no moral or ethical responsibility to repair the damage done to an innocent family's home. That is � cue voice of chastened reverence � Official Policy. Accordingly, the SWAT team, after trashing the Jaimes' home, simply gave the family the equivalent of a High School bully's distracted shrug and left in search of the nearest donut emporium.

Between January 1, 2007 and late June of this year, when the raid took place on the Jaimes' residence, "ten other property owners filed similar claims against the city for SWAT damage," reported WFAA-TV. "But Dallas has never paid a dime for the kicked in doors and other property damage. It likely won't go back and pay it now, either."

However, in a minuscule concession to public outrage provoked by media coverage of the Jaimes raid, "SWAT officers will at least let victims like the Jaimes know where to turn for help to decontaminate after [a] tear gas [assault]. It's a small gesture no other department in the state has done. In fact, DPD said it only found two other departments in the nation with similar programs" � one in Detroit, the other in Las Vegas.

So if your house is needlessly trashed in a SWAT raid, it's all but certain that the people responsible for leaving your abode a smoking, choking ruin won't even condescend to tell you the name of a local company that can clean up the mess.

The Dallas Police, seeking to contain the PR damage, referred the Jaimes to a local non-profit called Victim Relief, which offered to clean up the house at its expense. The group's founder, an apparently decent man named Gene Grounds, tried to depict the Police Department's actions in the best possible light: "We understand that [the police] have a job and their job ends when they complete their assignment," he observed.

The "assignment" here, recall, was to arrest 18-year-old murder suspect Cristobal Jaimes. One would expect this to be a matter of some urgency, given that a SWAT team was dispatched to take him into custody.

But oddly enough, within a few days of the assault on the Jaimes residence, the police blew an opportunity to arrest Jaimes without violence: When the young man called 911 in an attempt to turn himself in, he was told by the operator that he would have to arrange for his own transportation. "[T]ake a car, bus whatever ... but [the police] won't come and pick you up," the operator told a no doubt puzzled and frustrated murder suspect, who reacted by calling 911 again, getting a second operator, and eventually arranging for his own arrest.*

So ... arresting this murder suspect wasn't a sufficiently high priority to warrant the dispatch of a regular black-and-white, but at the same time it was urgent enough to justify a paramilitary assault on the home of his innocent family?

Behind that contradiction lurks another important question: What effort, if any, was made to find and arrest Cristobal through conventional police methods? I suspect the answers would run the spectrum from "very little" to "none at all."

For decades prior to the introduction of the militarized police units called SWAT teams forty years ago, street officers and detectives routinely tracked down and arrested dangerous murder suspects, and I'm sure that this is still done today, at least in some jurisdictions. But now that practically every community is occupied by a federally subsidized SWAT outfit, it has become common to use those teams for routine missions � not just arresting potentially violent suspects, but serving warrants and other non-crisis situations.

In the case of the Dallas SWAT team, the apparently irresistible temptation for the promiscuous use of SWAT teams is exacerbated by the distorting influence of "reality" television. The Dallas SWAT team, after all, isn't just a law enforcement agency. Its members are also television stars in search of the proper setting in which to display themselves.

In physics, the phrase "Observer Effect" refers to the way in which the act of observing something changes the behavior of the object under observation. A similar phenomenon can be found in the entertainment genre called "reality" television. No intelligent person can believe that human interactions caught on a less-than-candid camera are spontaneous and unaffected.

The worst and most troubling version of "reality" television programs are those chronicling the experiences of law enforcement agencies � the decades-old Fox program "COPS" and its imitators, one of which is Dallas SWAT (which has engendered its own regional spin-offs, as well).

Police work is carried out by armed people invested with the power to commit discretionary lethal violence; it's a monumentally bad idea to appeal to the vanity of such people and to encourage them to act in ways calculated to enhance their image.

"Reality" programs involving police tend to emphasize photogeneity over professionalism, not only in terms of the personnel chosen to represent a given department but also in terms of the decisions made in a given situation. Chases and confrontations make for dramatic television; patient de-escalation does not.

Perhaps this is why Dallas SWAT � which lost one of its cast members when he was found consorting with a groupie who turned out to be a prostitute � seems to favor high-publicity operations of exceptionally dubious merit, such as raiding underground poker games.

Yes, these armored paladins of public order are bold as Achilles when storming a card game � but timid as church mice when surrounding the home of a teenager believed to be armed and dangerous. That contrast, I think, throws into sharp relief the priorities of a law enforcement body that is also � or perhaps primarily � a propaganda instrument.

A legitimate documentary featuring the work of genuine peace officers would yield little of the adrenalized melodrama peddled by Fox and its imitators. Showing the routine arrest Cristobal Jaimes on the streets, or his booking after the young man turned himself in, wouldn't play on the Idiot Box. Showing him being dragged out of a house by an amped-up SWAT team, on the other hand, is Good Television.

What we might call the "COPS Effect" is intimately related to the mindset I call the "Showtime Syndrome, which manifests itself whenever a police officer threatens, or indulges in, unnecessary violence. But this lethal mimicry isn't limited to law enforcement.

Private sector thugs watch the same "reality" programs, after all, and it's becoming increasingly common for criminals to stage home invasion robberies while disguised as SWAT operators or other police personnel carrying out armed raids.

In fact, Dallas police just recently broke up an urban gang that specialized in home invasion robberies of that kind. For more than two years, that gang rampaged across several counties, stealing enough to branch out into the nightclub business and real estate ventures (including mortgage fraud � of the unofficial variety, that is).

The crooks often posed as SWAT operators; on a few occasions, following the Bush Regime's lead, they used "enhanced interrogation techniques" such as waterboarding to break down the resistance of victims trying to conceal the location of cash and other valuables.

Home invasions of that variety work best when they're carried out without resort to gunplay, which can attract the attention of neighbors and passersby. This leads me to wonder if some of those robberies could be thwarted if people weren't indoctrinated to see armed assaults as an increasingly routine form of police work. Again, we see evidence of the distorting influence of the "COPS Effect" at work.

Commentator Charles Featherstone describes COPS and its offspring as "the perfect morality tale for the evolving American police state.... It's 30 minutes � minus commercials � of moral superiority and vicarious entertainment at the expense of people who won't amount to much anyway."

That "morality play" is lethal, as it cultivates within the viewer a sense of identification with armed agents of State power and a sense of distance from the unsavory criminal suspects on the receiving end of State-sanctioned violence.

"The watcher of COPS gets to marvel at the stupidity of everyone detained, the pettiness of their crimes, and more importantly � the fact that we are watching, which means we aren't being apprehended ourselves," continues Featherstone. "In fact, we're quite convinced we're not the kind of people who would ever wind up on the wrong side of a loaded police officer, and can laugh and shake our heads at the pathetic folks who are."

Of course, police work is hardly the incessantly dangerous occupation depicted on television. And thanks in some considerable measure to the attitudes cultivated by Police State Television, the odds are improving that each of us, no matter how hard we try to avoid it, will find ourselves on the "wrong side of a loaded police officer" at some time in our lives.

*A few years ago, a 911 dispatcher in Watuga � a suburb of Ft. Worth � reacted to an anguished mother's call describing a destructive tantrum by a 12-year-old child by sneering: "OK � do you want us to come over and shoot her?" I don't think the intent here was to underscore to the mother that all police interactions involve the implicit threat of lethal violence.


"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain--that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist." --Lysander Spooner, 1867
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Yes Barak, the police messed up. Yes Barak, the City of Dallas should be held responsible, for the damage to the home. If the homeowner looked in the yellow pages of the phone book, under Attorney, that would probably be a good place to start.

As far as COPS the TV show, the majority of LEO's don't watch it because they, as i know, it's BS and not a true indication of the job and dealings with the citizens by LEO's.

Anymore cop bashing stories up your sleeve? You bash cops, you bash soldiers. I guess unless your a computer software writer, your wrong? You have a goodnight. smile

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I blame it on the younger generation that grew up watching TV.They are now adult and fill jobs like police officer.The problem is they developed the TV drama mentality instead of just growing up.They dont really live in the world that actually exists,they are living what they learned form Hollywood.My sisters middle son is one of them.He plays those stupid games on his computer.


Ideas are far more powerful than guns, We dont let our people have guns. Why should we let them have ideas. "Joseph Stalin"

He who has braved youths dizzy heat dreads not the frost of age.
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Originally Posted by jdm953
I blame it on the younger generation that grew up watching TV.They are now adult and fill jobs like police officer.The problem is they developed the TV drama mentality instead of just growing up.They dont really live in the world that actually exists,they are living what they learned form Hollywood.My sisters middle son is one of them.He plays those stupid games on his computer.


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It's Barak's fault for the kids problem, if he and his computer software writing buddies, didn't write the games, the kid wouldn't be in the position he is now. smile

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Barak Offline OP
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I thought it was an interesting take.

Most looks at the advancing police state in America attribute it to a voracious State that is perennially seeking more and more power.

This is the first article I've seen that has a different attribution--namely, reality television.

I'm not sure whether I completely buy it as a fundamental source--I'm still in the power-mad State camp myself--but I thought it was an interesting take, and perhaps had at least some truth to it as well.

What's your issue? Is it your assertion that there is some third reason for the advance of the police state in America?


"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain--that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist." --Lysander Spooner, 1867
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I have some really good stories about my nephew,keep in mind that when he was little I would watch him for his mother.I changed the boys diapers.When he was about 20 years old I got a phone call from him it went like this.I got the thing to take the nuts off with and the thing to put under it,what do I do now?Thats when I asked him if he had a flat tire.When he said yes I told him to find his older brother.Its a good thing he went to college.


Ideas are far more powerful than guns, We dont let our people have guns. Why should we let them have ideas. "Joseph Stalin"

He who has braved youths dizzy heat dreads not the frost of age.
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my agency has a board of claims. If we tear your trailer up, arresting or attempting to arrest you or yours, you can file a claim with the board of claims.


"The number one problem with America is, a whole lot of people need shot, and nobody is shooting them."
-Master Chief Hershel Davis

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Originally Posted by Barak
I thought it was an interesting take.
Most looks at the advancing police state in America attribute it to a voracious State that is perennially seeking more and more power.

This is the first article I've seen that has a different attribution--namely, reality television.

I'm not sure whether I completely buy it as a fundamental source--I'm still in the power-mad State camp myself--but I thought it was an interesting take, and perhaps had at least some truth to it as well.

What's your issue? Is it your assertion that there is some third reason for the advance of the police state in America?


Barak,

Perhaps a more "interesting take" would be a narrative of one the hundreds, if not thousands of successful apprehensions conducted by police officers all across this country every day.

But of course that would just be sort of a ho-hum story and probably not have incited the outrage on this forum that will undoubtedly be forthcoming as the result of your police bashing post.

Well, in any case boys and girls, here it comes............






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Barak Offline OP
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Originally Posted by nemesis
Perhaps a more "interesting take" would be a narrative of one the hundreds, if not thousands of successful apprehensions conducted by police officers all across this country every day.

But that's just the point. That's exactly what "COPS" is: a series of narratives of successful apprehensions. The article argues that perhaps that's not as good an idea as it seems on the surface to be.

Quote
But of course that would just be sort of a ho-hum story and probably not have incited the outrage on this forum that will undoubtedly be forthcoming as the result of your police bashing post.

You're opposed to the incitement of outrage?

So your position must be either A) that the needless and unrecompensed destruction of private property by government police is just and proper and should not incite outrage, or B) that, though injust and improper, such incidents should be suppressed as much as possible because news of them might incite outrage.

Right?


"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain--that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist." --Lysander Spooner, 1867
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What is the use of having to toys and not using them?
When the neighbor went to police academy he was taught disdain for "civilians". The police stick to themselves. Now he is not friendly as he used to be. And there IS a movement to empower the government more and more.
It is not only DC that wants noone to have a gun, a local cop at a neighborhood meeting stated that he would put anyone on the ground if he saw them taking a gun to or from their car (ever go to the range?). A "regular" officer was joking about the "denizens of the dark"--the SWAT, so they may be an abberation even in the PD.
My son got stopped in a DUI checkpoint. He wasn't. They are supposed to be legal, but how can they channel everyone into one lane and check them? Coming home from a night job is not probable cause.

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The continued, and rapid militarization of the police gives us Jack Booted Thug mentality and disdain for the common man, such as Hunter1960 displays here.
Taking umbrage with Citizens that bring to light of day incidents of police misconduct, is an example of how divided into separate camps we are now days.


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I try to stay away from "poster personalities" and reply to a post based on interest, humor, time, etc.

Didn't take this as a cop bashing thread. Just a report on something the poster considered to be improper action by police. Wither the entire sequence of events is correct or not I do not know.

I do know there has been a change in how our local police in my area represent themselves.

Used to be they were members of the community and in the course of daily life we would get to know each other. On meeting, greetings or depending on how good we knew each other conversations would be conducted. Some of the guys were long-term residents and they knew who the bad guys were.

Today that has changed. Many officers are not from the community and have the "cops/swat" appearance and tough guy mentality.

Stopping for morning coffee last year, one of these types was standing in line and I said, "good morning, how's things"?

He gave me a hard look and said, "Who are you?" I replied, "Just one of the people who live here" got my coffee and left it at that.

Things have changed and not always for the better. The police have a tough job that requires many faces. I respect and support them. However, if anyone wants to take this as police bashing, they should perhaps be more observant of changes that have occurred in America.

Battue

PS Just to keep the record straight, in my 64yrs I have had the police give me many "breaks" from speeding to minor infractions. Only once did I have a run in with one who just plain had an attitude that needed some adjustment. Fortunately one of his fellow officiers took care of that.




Last edited by battue; 07/27/08.

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I work with cops a lot. I see them in my Emergency Dept on a regular basis, and we interact regularly in the normal interaction our jobs necessitate. I train cops, including SWAT cops, in certain aspects of the cop trade. For the most part I find cops to be balanced, sensible, decent human beings. Even SWAT cops.

In my use of deadly force classes I quote a police chief who is well known in the Midwest: "The difference between a private citizen and a police officer is that the private citizen has no obligation to get into a fight when he goes to work, but the police officer does."

When cops enter a home to serve an arrest warrant on an offender who is known to be violent and/or armed, they know they are going to a fight. It might be a little fight, it might be a big fight. It might be a gunfight. They don't know what form it will take, but the knowledge that a fight will take place colors their actions during the operation.

The author of the news story seems to have thought the officers' caution was excessive (using video cameras to look into rooms before entering, for instance). I guess the author is ignorant of the fact that armored and armed SWAT officers have been murdered by hidden and armed offenders during house searches. He seems to have thought the use of tear gas was excessive. I guess he is also ignorant of the fact that people have gone to great lengths to create hiding places in their homes to prevent police arresting felonious members of the family.

I don't fault the officers in this case at all for their conduct. I think it's pretty damn cold of Dallas P.D., though, to fail to provide any means of compensation to the family for any damage done to the home during the search. Most agencies I know of have some form of compensation available.

As for the angle that reality shows like "COPS" and "Dallas SWAT" fuel this sort of callous behavior on the part of agencies as well as individual officers, I am in complete agreement. Behavior seen on TV is very powerful. We've grown up watching TV, and whether we like it or not, since we were children we have been conditioned to believe what we see on TV as gospel. Lt. Col. Dave Grossman's books and lectures speak convincingly to this effect with respect to violent behavior on the part of felons, and I see no reason why it shouldn't apply equally to cops.


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You must keep in mind that your relationship with cops is probably not terribly representative of that of the general population, at least not when you're identified with your profession, because you hold a position as one of the good guys: it's important for a cop to maintain a positive relationship with you because if at some point he gets shot and goes to the hospital, you might be the one working on him.

Most of us have no such "in" to the cop culture. Sometimes it seems as though we are viewed simply as bad guys who have to this point been frustratingly shrewd enough to avoid giving the cops an opportunity to arrest us: but that opportunity's coming, sure as the sun rises, and today might be the day.

I thought this insight was interesting:
Quote
So ... arresting this murder suspect wasn't a sufficiently high priority to warrant the dispatch of a regular black-and-white, but at the same time it was urgent enough to justify a paramilitary assault on the home of his innocent family?


The attack on the house seems to be a miniature of the Waco assault, where Koresh was repeatedly and reliably available to be arrested peacefully in public, if that had been the real objective; but instead for some reason his entire compound, including women and children, was assaulted with military forces.

Speculation as to the exact nature of that reason has burgeoned from that day to this; but one undeniable fact is that the compound assault was much more photogenic and newsworthy than a simple daylight arrest on the sidewalk would have been.


"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain--that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist." --Lysander Spooner, 1867
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Originally Posted by Mannlicher
The continued, and rapid militarization of the police gives us Jack Booted Thug mentality and disdain for the common man, such as Hunter1960 displays here.
Taking umbrage with Citizens that bring to light of day incidents of police misconduct, is an example of how divided into separate camps we are now days.


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Yes Sammy, i am just so mean to everyone, and you know this because???

You are just amazing, with the knowledge you have considering that you don't know me, nor know what i do, nor know what i do for my community. But of course, you read the Campfire so that's your primary source of knowledge.

I work for the common man, i go out and attempt to recover the property stolen, from one common man by another, and arrest the thief. The same with the assaults and murder caused by a common man, upon another common man.

I would enjoy to hear your explination as to what and how LEO's are to conduct their duties. This of course from someone who's never done that job. And truly knows as much about it, as a hog does Sunday school.

What's next are you going to tell military personnel how to conduct their duty also, but of course you've got no experience there either, right?

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I know some Law Enforcement People that are great people and I respect them, but I have talked to a few small town cops in upstate NY that think and act like they are Special Forces,Delta team , Sniper, Ranger, Seals. Jobs like that exist. Just sign on the dotted line. Web


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Originally Posted by kennyd
What is the use of having to toys and not using them?
When the neighbor went to police academy he was taught disdain for "civilians". The police stick to themselves. Now he is not friendly as he used to be. And there IS a movement to empower the government more and more.
It is not only DC that wants noone to have a gun, a local cop at a neighborhood meeting stated that he would put anyone on the ground if he saw them taking a gun to or from their car (ever go to the range?). A "regular" officer was joking about the "denizens of the dark"--the SWAT, so they may be an abberation even in the PD.
My son got stopped in a DUI checkpoint. He wasn't. They are supposed to be legal, but how can they channel everyone into one lane and check them? Coming home from a night job is not probable cause.


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You going to have to ask your neighbor, to show you the training material used in the academy, that teaches disdain towards citizens. I don't believe it exsists, no i'll call BS, since i've reviewed academy training from other states, and i've found no, block of instruction on disdain for citizens.

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"Koresh was repeatedly and reliably available to be arrested peacefully in public, if that had been the real objective; but instead for some reason his entire compound, including women and children, was assaulted with military forces."

And burned.

If it's true Koresh could have been peacefully taken in to custody, which I'm sure it is, then these are not mere Jack Booted Thugs. They're murderers.


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PERVERTS OFFEND ME!

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hunter1960, you are just too frigging easy. Whenever I get bored, I know I can at least get you riled by just showing up and mentioning your name.

Hope YOU make it to Sunday School today pard. grin


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wldthg,

I was a cop in rural upstate NY(27 yrs.) and I have seen what you are talking about. And I have also witnessed many changes in upstate "rural" NY. One is that the rural mindset is disappearing due to TV and many other factors. The other is that less than twenty miles from my home we have the Blood and Crypts now. Something I would never have even dreamed of when I started on the job. So alot of tactics and training have been adjusted to reflect the changes. However; there are still cowboys as you have stated. I've even seen the "fringe" in some of the local voluteer fire departments.

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