Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles Howa M1500...Sub MOA for $399 (Review) (Long)

So I have wanted a good rifle in .308 Winchester for years. To me this is the ultimate scroungers cartridge; blending power, availability, and diversity of components, as well as mild behavior when it comes to shoot-ability. I wanted the rifle to be something I could upgrade later so I didn�t want to spend too much money to start out, but I also wanted the initial rifle to be attractive and useful for its purpose before I upgraded it. For the last couple of years there just simply wasn't any rifle that I thought had the right blend of features and cost effectiveness. Then, about a month ago, I noticed Weatherby and Howa were both advertising their Vanguard and M1500 respectively for $399.

I admired the Vangaurd/1500 since back in the day when I worked at a gun store to pay my bills during college. Back then I think the thing that put me off was that I thought they didn't have a true short-action but instead had a modified bolt-stop and magazine spacer to make a standard length action serviceable for short cartridges.

Then a couple weeks ago I went to my home town and was making the rounds to my favorite old gun shops. On the shelf they had a Howa M1500 in .308 so I asked to look at it.

Things I liked about this rifle when I looked at it.
1. Of course I liked that it was $399
2. This was a M1500 and it was a true short action
3. Sako style extractor
4. Hogue Stock
5. Free-Floating Barrel
6. Adjustable Trigger
7. Fit and finish were very nice, especially compared to a Remington SPS, which would also cost more.
8. Since I worked at that gun shop the Howa/Vanguard rifles have gained a sterling reputation and have become very widely accepted.

The only thing I didn't like about the Howa was that, for the same price, it didn't come with Weatherby's 1.5 MOA guarantee. So I endeavored to find the Vanguard variety in .308 for the same price. Two weeks later, after not being able to find a gun store that carried the Vanguard in .308 who would give me the same $399 price if I did a special order, I decided it was better to stimulate my local economy rather than a corporate one and returned to my Local Gun Shop to purchase the M1500.

So for $399 for the rifle, plus $99 dollars for a Bushnell Trophy 3x9x40 (The Gun Shop threw in a set of Weaver rings and bases), and including Texas sales tax, I walked out the door with a complete shooting setup for $540.

As an aside, from past experience, I have found Bushnell Trophy scopes to be a great bargain for a budget scope. In the future when my optics budget is built up I intend to transfer the Bushnell to my 10/22 and put a higher quality scope with long range capability on my upgraded M1500.

To be sure I had some serious misgivings about the accuracy of my purchase but took it on faith that for the same price Howa would try to sell a product similar in quality to that of Weatherby with their Vanguard.

For the first range session I went to the range with a variety of factory loaded ammo (also all budget conscious). They were as follows.

Federal 150 gr. Power Shock for $16
Federal 165 gr. Fusion for $24
Winchester 180 gr. Super-X Power Point for $20

There was absolutely no wind at the range and I started off with the Federal 150�s at 50 yards for initial sighting in. My accuracy misgivings began to materialize when I, over the course of two 5 shot strings at 50 yards, the rifle strung them with no apparent rhyme or reason.

I decided I�d switch to the Winchester 180�s and immediately saw improvements. After getting zeroed at 50 yards with the 180�s I moved the target out to 100 yards for some accuracy testing. Initially I was cleaning the bore after every 5 shots, but started to clean after every 3 when I started shooting with the 180�s at 100 yards (mostly to give me something to do while I let the barrel cool).

On 3 consecutive strings of fire the 180�s printed groups of 1.5 inches from a completely clean bore. My panic over the accuracy of the 150 gr. load began to subside. So after 3 strings of fire, and without cleaning the bore before proceeding, I decided and give the 165 gr. Fusion load a try.

I was astonished when the first 3 shots with the 165 gr. load grouped at approx. 0.71 center-to-center. (group size estimated by holding a dime up to the group and aligning its edges with the centers of the three separate bullet holes.)

I decided to investigate further. I cleaned the bore and let it cool and decided that for the next course of fire I would fire 4 shots instead of three because the rifle had previously shown a propensity to throw the first shot from a clean bore approximately 1 inch high perfectly above center of aim. The first shot did exactly as expected printing 1 inch above the expected point of impact. The following 3 shots printed a perfect clover-leaf pattern with the center of the pattern being exactly 1 inch below the impact of the first �fowling shot.� I love it when a rifle is consistent and everything goes perfectly according to plan! The overall size of the 3 shot group was estimated at 0.80 from center-to-center by aligning the edges of a nickel with the center�s of all three bullet holes. At that moment, especially considering its performance with low cost ammo, I fell in love with the accuracy and consistency of this rifle.

There were a couple of things that I decided I should change about this rifle after shooting it. First, the trigger is set pretty heavy from the trigger and is gritty before the sear breaks. This made consistent shooting form from a concrete bench require diligent concentration. I cant imagine it would be very easy to achieve consistent form with this trigger while shooting in field positions. Therefore, the first thing I must do is clean up the trigger. Luckily the M1500 comes with a somewhat-adjustable trigger. So while I may be able to adjust it for weight and make it serviceable, it may prove more difficult to adjust to creep and seer engagement to eliminate the gritty take-up on this trigger. Ultimately I may have to go with an aftermarket trigger to achieve satisfactory results. The Second thing I am going to do is have the action glass bedded to ensure consistent engagement with the action and make the stock more ridged under recoil. I don�t think there is any way this could hurt and I believe it may actually even help make the rifle more consistent thereby shrinking the size of my groups.

One might argue that these two upgrades kind blow my budget minded justification for purchasing this rifle. But, when you look at it, for about $70 I can have both the trigger worked and the stock bedded, and after doing those two things the cost of the rifle is just now starting to approach that of an unmodified Remington SPS which would probably have to have those same things done to it also. Further, doing these two things is within my aforementioned spirit of upgrading the rifle as I go along and the budget increases.

In Conclusion, I would Highly recommend the Howa/Vanguard line of rifles, at the current price, to anyone who is either looking for an awesome hunting rifle for not much cash or anyone who is looking for a quality foundation upon which to build a high quality custom turn-bolt.

I�ll try to get some pictures of the rifle up as well as some pictures of the targets so that any skeptics can see the proof in the pudding

Cheer�s All.

UrsusFamiliaris -
First, welcome to the Campfire!

Congrats on your new rifle - it sound like it will shoot well with the proper ammo and it sounds like you've already found soemthing it likes.

Inexpensive guns that shoot well are always welcome and are much more desirable than expensive guns that don't.

A hardy welcome to you! Thanks for the review it was very interesting and well written. I have never owned a Howa, but have owned a couple of Vanguards that were great rifles.

Good review. I have never heard anything bad about the Howas. And though I don't own one yet, I have handled several in the guns stores. To my eyes, the workmanship/machining are a significant step above a 700.

John

Welcome to the 'fire!

Thanks for the review.

Great review, a good read. One of my hunting pardners bought a new Howa 1500 stainless/synthetic in 7mm REM MAG last winter (older version with two step safety). The rifle had a terrible trigger, but he had a local gunsmith adjust it (about $65.00 IIRC), now it shoots great and the trigger is excellent. You may be able to have it adjusted without buying a new trigger.

What a great first post.
I know of a guy that bought one of the Howa's in 243 for his son and liked it so much he kept it for himself.
Another guy bought one of the Weatherby Compacts(two stocks come with it and has a 20 inch barrel) in .308 for his small frame son equipped with managed recoil ammo.
This kid is deadly with that rifle!!
On the topic of that Bushnell Trophy scope.
My brothers wife bought one three years ago for him and i warned him repeatedly about using a cheap Asian scope on his only hunting rifle but so far his 30-06 has not croaked it yet.
He liked his so much he ordered one and put it on his old Mossberg 800 in 243 as a back up deer rifle.

Oh yea..Welcome.

Welcome - One lesson here is Federal Fusion ammo. I have tried it in 3 calibers and all three shot MOA or better.

Dave

Dave, I've had quite a few friends buy a new gun, come to my house with a couple boxes of Fusion shells for practice purpose's and get acquainted with the new gun. After shooting, most don't switch from the Fusions as the accuracy is very good. I've obtained much once fired brass this way as most don't reload.

Rob

Where did you find the H1500 for $399, my brother in law is looking for one in TX. Thanks for the help!

Well I have seen Weatherby Vanguards in Walmarts for that price and Howa M1500's at Academy Sports and Outdoors Shops in Lubbock and Abilene.

The rifle I picked up was from "The Shootin' Shop" in Abilene, gunsmith's name is Doyle, but I think it is a state-wide promotional offer. However a lot of smaller privately owned local gun shops don't seem to be taking part in the promotion, which is a shame because it means that big coorporations will get the buisness rather than them. I just got lucky that my local shop was taking part in the promotion.

Here's another Howa fan. I watched a barely used 1500/tupperware stocked .338WM for several months at an area Gander Mountain a few years ago until it dropped to $199...after which it came home with me (grin). I restocked the rifle with a Boyd's "JRS" laminate, mounted an Ebay Leupold M8-4X, and, after a lot of bedding experimentation, full-length bedded the rifle. With near max loads, it will put 3, 250 gr. Hornadys into about an inch @ 100 yards. (Only a little larger groups with 250 Nosler Partitions). Haven't had the opportunity to shoot on a range with longer targets. The trigger on my rifle is nice enough to preclude replacement.

Mine's a Vanguard .257. I put it in a Bell & Carlson Medalist that had two TEETS in the forward barrel channel, I thought about removeing them but figured I could always do that later if needed. I also put a Timney on it along with a "cheapo" Nikon buckmasters. The rifle shoots well under moa with the factory TSX's. It's the first time I've shot factory rounds out of any of my rifles in a loooong time. I was & am impressed.

IMHO they are the best value out there for the $$.I own 5 Vanguards and 1 S&W...always on the lookout for more.

Here is another long post. A forum member messaged me with a simple question, to which I gave an answer which was much too complicated. Without disclosing the identity of the gentleman who messaged me, I have included some pertenent parts of my response. It is pretty much a ramble on capitalistic production theory and why I wound up buying the Howa instead of the Vanguard. In it there are also some mysteries which some of you here might be able to shed some light on. So if you are interested, here it is, for your reading pleasure, feel free to respond with your wisdom or correct me where you see fatal flaws.

Back when I worked at a gun shop I heard all sorts of stories about how the Vanguards were supposed to be more accurate than the Howa's. None of them were ever substantiated though. One of the stories was that the regular production Howa barreled actions are taken of the line and are then put through a regimine of barrel straightening to ensure they meet the accuracy garuntee. Another was that only those Howa's that exibited 1.5 moa accuracy after test firing were taken and to have the bolt fluted and marked weatherby. Whether those stories are true or not is a mystery to me.

What I did know though, is that Weatherby and Howa are both marketing their rifle for $399. So what I had to do to justify buying the Howa was invest a little faith in capitalistic theory. My theory being that if two companies are going to market an almost identical product for the same price, one should be of the same quality as the other. Otherwise Howa would risk creating a bad reputation for themselves and would loose profit in the long run because if the Weatherby's were really that much better nobody would want to buy a Howa for the same price. If the Howa's were inferior then Howa would have to run a promotion running the M1500 for say $50 less.

So here is basically why I bought the Howa instead of the Vanguard.

1.Faith that for a similar price Howa would produce a comodity of similar quality as the Vanguard.

2.It comes equiped with a free floating Houge overmould stock. Vanguards I believe are not free floated. The houge feels better to me than the Vanguard stock because it is lightere, has crazy grip (almost sticky) and doesnt have a monte carlo cheek peice. Also, I know the length of pull is the same on the Howa and the Vanguard, but for some reason any time I shouldered a vanguard I felt stretched way out of my normal shooting position, like a kid holding his dad's rifle. I cannot however quantify why I had this sensation.

3. It was available in my Local Gun Shop in the caliber I wanted, whereas to get the weatherby I would have had to pay more to have it special ordered.

4. I got to stimulate my loal economy rather than a corporate one.

It may be that I just got lucky and the rifle I picked up just happened to be one of those that offered incredible accuracy even in the absence of extensive quality control, accurizing, test firing, and a garuntee.

However, it may also be possible that Howa makes such a quality product that it is easy and economical for Weatherby to contract the production of their rifles from Howa because a large majority of their product consistently produce small groups. If so that would mean that it is easy for Weatherby to garuntee accuracy, and would have a minimum of products rejected for being unfit for the garuntee. This would make test firing only a formality to assure that the product fit the garuntee. It would also mean that Weatherby would not have to incurr extra cost for the price of accurizing, quality testing, hand picking exceptional specimens, etc. It might neccisarily drive the consumer price up if they did have to take those measures. This may also explain why they are marketed for the same price.

It's kinda like the question of how many licks it takes to get to the centere of a tootsie pop. "The world may never know." My mind (as all men's) may go to incredible lenghts to justify itself, but to me,the latter theory seems more inline with the kind of Japanese capitalism and production theory Americans have become familiar with in other areas such as the automotive industry.

However, there is something very reassuring about a garuntee and a factory test group though.

Even for all my rambling about capitalistic production theory, If I had it all to do aver again, and I had the choice between a Vanguard and a Howa in the same caliber setting right next to each other for the same price, I probably would have walked out the store with the Vanguard instead.

For whatever it's worth.

The only difference is the name on the side of the receiver. This may become an issue if you ever decide to part with your rifle as some folks have heard or weatherby rifles, but have not heard of howa. I would hazard a guess that most all folks who mess with guns know they are the same, but there are the folks who go out to buy themselves a deer rifle with little individual knowlege of the products available. They have seen a few hunting shows on television, and maybe read a magazine at a barber shop. They stand a better chance of having heard of a Weatherby than a Howa.

Name recognition is all it comes down to.

Welcome to the 'Fire, and congrats on a fine new rifle. I have never owned a Howa, but I'm going to try one some day. I continue to hear good things.

I'll second the Fusion quality - this is fantastic factory ammo - I've never had it fail to shoot accurately, and use it in 243, 25-06, 270 Win, 300 WSM, 7-08 - it is submoa in Remingtons, Tikkas, Winchesters and Kimbers for me in these cartridges.

One other note on the Howas - along with the good things I hear elsewhere, Steelhead is building lots of his rifles on Howas, and he has a rifle or two and has burned some powder playing and hunting, and hasn't babied them (understatement...grin) - I believe he's pretty sold on them, and that's a pretty good recommendation in my book.

DJ

I think they are great rifles. I have a vanguard 22-250 that will do between .5 and .7 groups 4,000fps at a time.

while watching "the hunting channel" i saw a national (as opposed to one of my local advertisers) tv commercial a couple hours ago hawking weatherby's at 399.00 in selected calibers. i'm sure it was for the vanguards, which i think are good rifles. i remember reading an article in a gun rag maybe 2 years ago which tested 5 different factory rifles (all in 30-06). i believe the author also shot 5-6 different factory loads. seems the article was "best factory rifles for under 500.00" or something along those lines. the vanguard shot the best groups, fwiw. while i have never owned a weatherby, i am sure one could get a vanguard in 30-06 and hunt all of n/a for the rest of his life. ymmv............

I think the Howa 1500/ Weatherby Vanguard is one of the great sleepers out there. I am a lefty, so I don't own any. However, my father in law and several friends have them (some on my recommendation). All are tack drivers with preferred ammo.

I actually bought one for my pastor as a Christmas gift from the church a couple of years ago. It was a closeout a WalMart for $250 while they were closing a small store and opening a Super WalMart. I bet you don't see many churches doing that today.

Leon