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#247329 - 02/05/04 06:21 AM Where is Clay Harvey?
Trappertom Offline

Registered: 01/07/04
Posts: 70
Loc: MN
Read my last question in Bret4207's post "Old favorite writers."
God, grant me the senility to forget the guns I never liked, the good fortune to run into the ones I do, and the eyesight to know the difference.

RV 728 BP
#247330 - 02/05/04 06:27 AM Re: Where is Clay Harvey?
Cheaha Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 04/09/02
Posts: 6401
Loc: Mt.Cheaha,AL.
Do a search here. I believe JB answered that question awhile back about ole "StickyFingers Harvey"...

But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines, the commandments of men. Mt 15:9

#247331 - 02/05/04 12:01 PM Re: Where is Clay Harvey?
Trappertom Offline

Registered: 01/07/04
Posts: 70
Loc: MN
Cheaha, Thank you for the suggestion. I did a search. Nothing showed up.
God, grant me the senility to forget the guns I never liked, the good fortune to run into the ones I do, and the eyesight to know the difference.

#247332 - 02/05/04 01:54 PM Re: Where is Clay Harvey?
dogzapper Offline
Campfire Kahuna Emeritus &
Campfire Outfitter

Registered: 03/19/03
Posts: 7696

If you want the truth, after screwing about every manufacturer in the industry, he got "blackballed."

I owned a jewelry store at the time and he didn't ignore me, either. The dickhead stiffed me for a three thousand dollar Rolex watch.

Last I heard, he was working in a frozen yogurt shop in South Carolina. That's fitting.

Yes, he could tell a yarn, but the man had practically no field experience. Almost all of his stuff was either the experience of others or total fiction.

Once, when I was working with Kimber, I was elected to be his ammo carrier and counter of gopher bodies. The man proved to be perhaps the worst shot I've ever seen. This was quite a revelation for me; after all, this was the great Clay Harvey. Any gopher beyond fifty yards was totally safe, even with the new Kimber Super America .223 that was presented to him.

Of course, Clay sold the rifle at a gun show the next week. Typical

He called me once and asked, "Steve, how many .284 Winchester rounds,on the average, does it take to stop a mature whitetail buck." My answer was pretty simple; "ONE."

Those of us who are honest writers still feel the effects of Clay's dishonesty. Too bad, but I surely do not blame them.


Edited by dogzapper (02/05/04 02:01 PM)

#247333 - 02/05/04 02:11 PM Re: Where is Clay Harvey?
Ward Offline
Campfire Ranger

Registered: 02/05/01
Posts: 1809
Loc: Western Washington
You don't have to hold back your true feelings. Just go ahead and let us know how you really feel. Ward

#247334 - 02/05/04 02:43 PM Re: Where is Clay Harvey?
Ken Howell Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 12/14/00
Posts: 29348
I "inherited" Clay as one of my staff writers when I succeeded the recently departed Neal Knox as editor of Handloader and Rifle magazines in 1978. He came out for a visit and quickly succeeded in making himself thoroughly unpopular with our staff. After a while, the material that he sent me got too sloppy to tolerate from a staff writer, so I took him off the staff but encouraged him to send me cleaner material as a free-lancer and earn his old staff position again (as he had done before). He acknowledged that he'd gotten increasingly sloppy and seemed to accept my decision like an honest man. But I never got any more material from him.

I don't think I announced his removal from my staff. IIRC, readers noticed the absence of his material and mast-head listing in later issues of the magazines.

Then I started hearing, one after another, from manufacturers from whom he'd borrowed dozens of guns (on limited-time consignments), which he'd neither returned nor paid for. The manufacturers were very lenient -- offered to extend the consignment periods, but needed signed copies of his renewed FFL for their records. He wouldn't answer their repeated inquiries. Finally, one manufacturer was forced to report to the BATF that he had not provided the needed FFL copy. Then it came -- in a BATF envelope.

The total value of all those rifles, handguns, and shotguns -- even at the much lower "friendly" prices for writers -- ran to a total well into five figures (that's $xy,000!). The last I heard, a grand total of no gun had been returned, and a super total of $0 had been received by any of several manufacturers.

And that wasn't all of it. Several ammo companies told me that a typical request from Clay was Send me a case of each load that you offer for the [.30-06, .44 Magnum, etc] -- a total, sometimes, of close to a dozen cases per cartridge.

Then I heard from some of Clay's shooter neighbors, including dealers and gunsmiths, who reported that Clay had (a) offered them great quantities of factory ammo at less than retail price and (b) had a huge selection of new rifles, handguns, and shotguns on his tables at local gun shows -- for sale.

Let me make this clear, because a number of my writer and editor friends condemned me for "exposing" and "firing" Clay and black-balling him with the manufacturers. I did neither. All of the "dirt" on Clay came out, independent of and separate from my limited role in removing him from his staff position. I learned of the rest afterward and had no part in spreading the word. That kind of word gets around this industry pretty fast on its own legs with no help from me.

A couple of other editors continued to buy material from Clay -- until he sold 'em both the same article, and both published it (neither aware that the other also had it) -- which is a cardinal no-no for writers. So I have no trouble guessing or understanding why you don't see his byline in any recent publication.

Too bad. Clay was able. But he fouled his own bed.

#247335 - 02/05/04 11:48 PM Re: Where is Clay Harvey?
muledeer Offline
Campfire Outfitter

Registered: 06/20/01
Posts: 8704
Loc: Ketchikan, AK, USA
I had a brief correspondence with him 20-odd years ago, relative to an article he wrote about the "inherent inaccuracy" of the .257 Roberts cartridge, regardless of rifle brand, action type, barrel, rifling twist, etc. Pre-Internet, so I had to write him an old-fashioned manual letter. Sent him targets and everything, just to make the point that even in my old, short-action long-throat SUCKS 722 the Roberts accuracy was far more than adequate. His basic response was that no amount of evidence would change what he knew to be right.

The ancient Greek philosophers called it "hubris".
"The more you run over a dead cat, the flatter it gets."

"If you're asking me something technical, you may be looking for My Other Brother Darrell."

"It ain't foot-pounds that kills stuff -- it's broken body parts."

#247336 - 02/06/04 12:57 AM Re: Where is Clay Harvey?
Hondo64d Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 05/18/03
Posts: 4161
Loc: The Big Country
He must have also put the article in a book he wrote that was distributed by the North American Hunting Club. I remember reading it. I don't have it handy, but I think the book was titled "The Hunter's Rifle."

If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

#247337 - 02/06/04 04:30 AM Re: Where is Clay Harvey?
Trappertom Offline

Registered: 01/07/04
Posts: 70
Loc: MN
Ken Howell, et al., Your answers make me sad. Now I have found there seems to be seamy-side to an otherwise talented word crafter: deftly weaving words while at the same time spinning a self-destructive and morally tragic web. What an epitaph for a potentially brilliant career: "He was able, but he fouled his own bed." Notwithstanding, his inimitable writing style remains among my favorites.
God, grant me the senility to forget the guns I never liked, the good fortune to run into the ones I do, and the eyesight to know the difference.

#247338 - 02/06/04 02:15 PM Re: Where is Clay Harvey?
allenday Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 04/28/03
Posts: 3052
Loc: Yamhill Co., OR
I thought that Clay was a good writer, but it was clear that he had very little real hunting experience of his own to base his assumptions on. He distilled much of his information from the experiences of others - mostly other writers. He bought into and passed along a great deal of misinformation as well, and many of his conclusions were ridiculous. Hunting experience always shows with any good writer of the subject, and I'm afraid Clay's inexperience was showcased for what it was much of the time.

He wrote about elk cartridges, for example, but I doubt that he'd ever taken one himself, and the one elk story he wrote about sounded like a fabrication to me, and I suspect the elk he posed with for the hero-photo was taken by someone else - not Clay Harvey.

"The placing of the bullet is everything. The most powerful weapon made will not make up for lack of skill in marksmanship."

Colonel Townsend Whelen

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