Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles RCBS Vs. Redding Die Sets

I often do neck expansion with a different die in a separate step, but I won't go so far as to say it's strictly necessary to achieve low runout.

For example I recently assembled a batch of hunting ammo for my 308 using brass that was sized in a normal RCBS full length sizer with the expander ball in place. The bullets were seated using a Redding competition seater. Out of forty rounds only three showed as much as .002" bullet runout, the rest having less and a few hardly making the indicator needle wiggle at all. The ammo shot very well too.

mathman

I do like the smoothness of my Redding dies, however, I don't think you could go wrong with RCBS either. I had occasion to call RCBS recently about a cross threaded expander locking ring on a die. They were extremely helpful and promised to get me a new assembly out immediately. I had just bought two sets of handgun dies and accidentally told them the wrong caliber when I called. I caught my mistake after hanging up the phone. I called back and asked for the same CS Rep and spoke with the guy again, explaining that I had made a mistake and needed an assembly from a different caliber. A couple of days later I received a padded envelope from RCBS with BOTH assemblies in there and an invoice that said �NO CHARGE� and �We thank you for your business!� Pretty impressive CS in today�s screwed up business world.

I RCBS, Hornady, and Redding dies. I really prefer RCBS except when it comes to specialty dies then Hornady gives me the best price by a long shot, there custom made dies are less than half of what RCBS demands, same for the big bore double rifles.

Redding are good dies, but I defy anyone to prove their superiorty over RCBS or Hornady, they are simply more expensive and the difference is mostly cosmetic but it works with a lot of folks.

Excuse me if I seem cranky, I am, its snowing like a SOB outside and my winter blues are setting in, its just too early and I am of amind to kick Al Gores ignorant ass because global warming isn't taking place, he just has to be the worlds biggest con artist!

Mathman's spot on with his directions for settin' up a sizin' die and following such directions will result in the desired results.

However, even though I employed Mathman's set-up technique for many years and have quite happily and successfully done so, there is an easier mousetrap in town which gives the same result. Notice I didn't say "better", but rather easier. I have found that both sizing methods realize very similar results.

Simply buy a reasonably priced product that Redding puts out called "Competition Shell Holders". You get 5 shellholders in a very compact case which contains a very thorough explanation for adjusting and setting up your sizing die while employing these competition shellholders. These shellholders are marked and vary from .002 to .010 in height. Simply use the standard technique offered with each new sizing die for setting up your said die, tighten it down and you're done with that part. Use a fireformed case from your firearm, lube it, use the .010 shellholder first and size the case as you would normally. Wipe off the lube and then try it in your chamber. Since the whole idea of Mathman's method and mine is to achieve that "slight crush" feelin' when your case is chambered, that's what you're looking for here. If cycling the bolt with the .010 shellholder sized case is either difficult or more snug than you personally desire in your rifle, move on to the .008 shellholder (after going through the lube process again) and chamber that resized case and test for the desired "crush factor". Repeat as necessary until you have customized your case for your chamber.

I've found that most of my chambers have either used the .010 or .008 shellholders while attaining that nice, slightly crush fit. The nice part about these competition shellholders is that you establish what feel you want, identify which height of shellholder works best for that cartridge and then each and every case resizing session, just select that same shellholder for that cartridge (which should be now plainly marked on each die set case)........no worries.

I own 3 sets of these shellholders as I load for a number of different cartridges, but one set does accommodate more than one cartridge. The Redding site will guide you to the specific set you'll be needing.

Again, Mathman's way was my way as well for many years, but in the last 10 years or so, I've transitioned to this shellholder approach as it is both quite easy and as equally efficient.

I haven't bought a set in many years, but paid around $38 for my last set. For me anyway, a cheap, but wonderful addition to my reloading bench.

Hope this helps, but either way, this thread now contains what I believe to be the 2 most effective and efficient ways to approach the setting up of one's resizng dies......YMMV.

Good luck...............

Die preference - Redding and Forster generally get my $. I also always go with the Hornady style, die lock screws. Fits what I believe to offer the most uniform tightening of the lock ring.....whether real or imagined.

You have to love thoughtfully engineered tools, but I wish they would offer them in some negative increments too. A lot of topics have come up lately where the situation boiled down to getting enough sizing rather than avoiding too much.

Now there's a patent waitin' to happen........grin.

All you have to do is grind of standard shell holders to whatever negative # you want. You can measure the thickness before and as you grind and there you have it. The competition holders are worth it because it's difficult, if not impossible, to add shims for the correct thickness.

One other advantage to the competition holders is that you do get a more consistent shoulder setback. Plus, you can adjust and "square" your dies much more easily at setup.

True, but I'm not sure if I could grind them as flat and true as I'd like. I suppose I could pick up a cheap spare and try it out.

I see that you also have found their use worthwhile....grin.

Both ways work well, one way is just easier, for me anyway. I also thought to suggest the grinding method, but I don't have either the knack nor the tools to be exact enough for my purposes.....but that surely doesn't mean that nobody else does.

As luck would have it, so far, I've not needed to go that (-) way as yet. Perhaps if and when I do, Mathman will have it all figured out and I can ask him how to proceed.

I'm more the financier type than the brains type. At least my wife would wholeheartedly agree regarding the former type and anything to do with reloading/shooting......grin. I still see a marketing possibility here.............not that anybody is too happy with "The Market" these days.

I watched a master machinist grind a shim once. He used wet/dry sandpaper and worked the shim in a figure "8" pattern. He said that the figure 8 pattern kept the grind level since the changes of direction leveled the pressure on all sides. I've tried it since and it works................................DJ

What did he use for backing?

Interesting thread. The only dies I have ever had to send back to the manufacturer were Redding. They took care of the problem.

He was using a certified granite plate since the shim needed to be accurate to within 10ths of a thousandth.
For grinding a shellholder I'd just use something hard that I knew was dead flat. A peice of thick glass on a good bench should do..............................DJ

Or chuck them in a drill press, raise up the table with a stone and bring the quill down.

Better still, use a Forster Coax press and be done with all that! Once you have the die set up, a one time deal, all you do is slide it in and out.

If you have to grind down your shellholder (or the base of your FL die) then wouldnt it follow that the chamber of your rifle is so tight that even factory ammo would not chamber?

I use the Redding competition shell holders and love them but I've never seen the need for a thinner shellholder on any rifle I've ever owned.

It doesn't follow since FL dies don't necessarily reduce cases to factory ammo size. And for most purposes it's a good thing they don't.

Nor have I, ever, while I used conventional presses. The Coax gives you all the flexibility of the others plus no shell holders, unless you insist on using them.

Besides the semi autos requiring cases to be sized a bit smaller, some of the need is brought about by cases that are fired in rifles that aren't "square", that is, the chamber isn't perfectly perpendicular to the bolt face. When it's fired the base is skewed, not square to the centerline of the bore. The case sized and is chambered in a different orientation after reloading and the bolt is either difficult to close or impossible. This usually happens in factory rifles as most gunsmiths "square" the action when they rebarrel.

True enough but anytime I've felt the need to case size to absolute minimum dimensions I've gone to a small base die.
I guess there could be specific rifles/cartridges that dont have small base dies readily available but I cant think of any offhand.

"You have to love thoughtfully engineered tools, but I wish they would offer them in some negative increments too. A lot of topics have come up lately where the situation boiled down to getting enough sizing rather than avoiding too much."

That is the problem I have had. The die did not size the base down small enough for the case to fit the chamber. In this instance, the cases were fired in another rifle, that must have had a max chamber, and by chance I got a minimum die.

It seems to me that grinding off the base of the die would only be helpful if you were having problems with headspace. The headspace of the sized case, not the chamber. If the die was not sizing the base down small enough, all you would accompolish by grinding the base of the die would be to alter the headspace.

The case would go into the die further, but it still might not size the body down enough, but it would definately change the headspace.

Redding dies have very nice workmanship, but I have never, ever, been able to avoid dents in the shoulders caused by trapped air or lube. Redding dies are not vented. RCBS dies are vented, and I never have a problem with dented shoulders when using RCBS dies.

Unless I take the die out of the press and clean the inside, I never get more than one or two cases with out dents, even when using the smallest possible amount of lubricant to prevent the die sticking.

13579

Are you using K-Y Jelly?