24hourcampfire.com
24hourcampfire.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 3 of 4 1 2 3 4
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 400
WJU Offline
Campfire Member
Offline
Campfire Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 400
Originally Posted by Mule Deer
57 grains should get around 2500.



We did confirm, though, that velocity is the best predictor of pressure for the average handloader.


I would love to see a article written around these lines. Showing variations that can & do occur in manuals vs what individual rifles are like in the real world.

For my part, I load 250 grain bullets in my 35 whelens and adujust the charge until I get to or around 2500 fps. It has worked great in both of my custom mauser & my bone stock Remington 7600. My load using 250 grain speers is 57 grains RL 15 in my mauser. Never tried working up a load for the Hot Cors in my Remington yet. After I go through all of my Hornady 250 grain round nose bullets I suspect I will.

BP-B2

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,879
T
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
T
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,879
I've always used a charge of 58.5 grains of Re 15 under the Hornady 250 grain Spire Point. Never noticed a problem, until I stared using a new 5 lb keg. Compared the new loads with a few of the old lot of Re15 and saw definite pressure indications with new stuff. Ejector marks were obvious on cases loaded with the new powder, but nothing on the old. I'll be backing off a grain or grain or two if I buy another box or two of the Horns.

Right now I'm loading the 250 grain Nosler Partition on top of 55 grains of Re 15. I know it is 2 grains over the book max, but the velocity is below the book (about 2460) and I see no sign of pressure either on the cases or by recoil level as compared to the Horn load. I'll probably use this load for elk in couple of weeks.


"Whether you think you can or you think you can't, you're right."
Henry Ford

If it's tourist season, why can't we shoot them?
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 384
Campfire Member
Offline
Campfire Member
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 384
That load will work great for elk. I just clobbered a big cow elk head on into the chest with a 250 speer HC at 50 yards. She turned and fell. The bullet did loose it's core ( your NP shouldn't) but it wasn't until it was about to come to rest under the hide.


"If all the good luck and all the bad luck I've had were put together, I reckon it'd make the biggest damned pile of luck in the world." Charlie Goodnight

Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,324
zxc Offline
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,324
i have tried RL 15 in my whelen but have had a better experience with Varget. Top load of 55gr yields 2300 fps in my rifle with a 250FXB... 61gr gets 2684fps.... the load I have been using since 1996. because of the substantial freebore, 0.110", i have a rifle /case combination that has an 11% greater effective volume than a minimum standard set up. This is still a stiff load but exhibit no traditional pressure signs, speed is not one because of the increased effective volume

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,813
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,813
To me, loading for the Whelen is fairly simple. If you're using medium speed powders (Varget, RE 15, 4064), you can get 2450-2500 ft/sec with just about any cup and core bullet at ~ 60,000 Psi. The case won't hold enough slower powder (4350's) to build enough pressure to approach 2500.

I tend to look at the relationship between known pressure, powder speed, and velocity when developing loads. For my 35 Whelen, I stopped at 2500 ft/sec when doing load development using 250's. If I needed a grain or two to each 2500, so be it. I've been doing it that way since I bought a chronograph and was pointed in that direction by JB a while back.


Adversity doesn't build character, it reveals it.
IC B2

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 20,787
R
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
R
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 20,787
In a much improved 35 Whelen case my load was 65 grains RL 15 with 225 grain Noslers and it would do 2670 from my 15" barrel. 3 shot 1/4" groups were common.


Throttle fixes everything. If it doesn't fix the problem, it’ll end the suspense.
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 123
W
Campfire Member
Offline
Campfire Member
W
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 123
I just joined your 24hourcampfire forum this past week. I was a little suprised to find I'm not exactly the "toast of the town" here. I use ReL15 in my 35Whelens. But I feel the need to clarify a few things about my personal page - http://www.35cal.com/loading.html
Quote
Uh, I just looked at the data you reference. I consider it way over maximum and the man's loading practices ill-conceived. I advise everyone reading this to steer very clear of thhis data.

Ok - some over published max - but take some time to read the text not just the tables throughout the page referenced. I'm not a dangerous dim wit. Experimental reloading (load development) has been my hobby for almost two decades now. I'm fixated on 35s though I also load for other calibres. In the early days I had a few primers fall out upon opening an action (excessive pressures) and a few sticky bolt lifts. Beyond that I have had no unscheduled moments of extreme excitment related to over inflated brass, breeches or barrels. I hope the trend continues.
Quote
...The 0.020" of expansion he experienced is probably measured on the pressure ring of the case body, not the head. True case head expansion of 0.020" would indicate astronomical pressure.

Yep it would if it happened. But to clarify - the (.511/.531) is not a before and after measurement at all. But rather a measurement taken on the case body immediately ahead of the belt (.511) and another taken on the belt immediately ahead of the extractor groove(.531) after firing the round. In other words, at the range I simply noted down after firing a test round its diameter at two points on the case. I keep my micrometer beside me when shooting often. I often mic cases as they go into the breech and then when they come out - I measure any difference just ahead of the extractor slot primarily.

Quote
And then we have the statement, "but no ejector slot imprint yet." An imprint of the ejector slot in the headstamp of a case indicates the brass is flowing back into the slot due to astronomical pressure. If the man typically adds powder to his loads until he sees this imprint, he is flirting with disaster - even death.


How else does one say that there is no ejector slot imprint observed when the fired case is examined other than just say it (mauser type slot in this case). It's instructional to note that sometimes elevated pressures can be noted by one indicator and not another. No I did not shovel in more powder in this case precisely BECAUSE the case head was indicating an unacceptable level of expansion to me.

Lastly my "Loading page" does not present load data in the usual sense anyway - but simply range results with my personal comments to self. They are load notes and observations - warts and all. Some loads are well over max according to some published sources. Yes I know - I ought not. But I do not "recommend" them to any one - see my disclaimer. Going public with my load development notes on this page has sometimes been misunderstood though I try to be clear.

Any who - I'm thru.

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,438
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,438
Whelen B- what the hell took you so long to join the fire? grin Welcome, and keep the data flowing!

My .350 Rem Mag load (from your site) of 60.0 gr of R15 under a 225 gr Woodleigh has been a steady diet in my Mod 7. Accuracy is superb.



Faith and love of others knows no mileage nor bounds. That's simply the way it is.
dogzapper

After the game is over, the king and the pawn go into the same box.
Italian Proverb

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 712
F
Fraser Offline OP
Campfire Regular
OP Offline
Campfire Regular
F
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 712
I've met Whelen B a couple times in gunshops since we don't live too far apart from each other. I'm sure his data really is just his observations. I never got the impression of BS or bravado from talking to him.


"Hail to the King, Baby!"
Ash, Army of Darkness
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,446
D
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
D
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,446
On the LoadData website, they still list some of the RL-15 loads in the 58-59 gr. range. I have been using 58 gr of RL-15 for some time in my Rem 700 Classic under a 225 gr Sierra BT. I have not seen any pressure signs. I wonder why the changes?

IC B3

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,446
D
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
D
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,446
Just double checked on my handloads from previous loadings and the best load with the 225 gr. Sierra was 58 gr. of RL-15. I have shot 40-50 of those loads and have about that many left, but now I am a little nervous.

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 123
W
Campfire Member
Offline
Campfire Member
W
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 123
Quote
I have been using 58 gr of RL-15 for some time in my Rem 700 Classic under a 225 gr Sierra BT. I have not seen any pressure signs.

I wouldn't feel nervous with that load if no signs of excess pressure are noted as you say. I have a 700 Classic in 35Whelen too and that load is easily digested in it. It seems quite a reasonable load. Chronograph a few shots if you want another key indicator of whats going on. You are probably around 2550MV or so(???). As has been noted already on this thread, many are shooting that 58gr. charge (or slightly more) behind heavier 250gr cup and core bullets without issues. In a sound modern gun should be OK if pressure signs don't say otherwise. Just my thoughts but yours matters the most re. your own handloads.

Incidentally a correction, I said above;
Quote
I just joined your 24hourcampfire forum this past week.
Nope - I actually "re-registered" a week or so ago forgetting that I was already a forum member for about 6 months already now. Kinda lost track of that. Just thought some might wonder.

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,126
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,126
Has all of the R-15 data been lowered for all calibers listed, or just the Whelen data? If its been the latter, the issue is the plethora of rebored, rebarreled or just old rifles in this venerable caliber. If all of the data has changed, then obviously there is some hot R15 out there. Be nice to know, since I use the powder in three different calibers.

Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 302
W
Campfire Member
Offline
Campfire Member
W
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 302
Originally Posted by Stoneybroke
Has all of the R-15 data been lowered for all calibers listed, or just the Whelen data?...


It's not just the .35 Whelen data and it's not just R-15 data. Alliant has revised much (perhaps nearly all?) of their published rifle data in this year's guide, with, as near as I can tell, nary a peep of explanation, save for perhaps what was mentioned above. (Huh-huh...uh...yeah...uh...we're using Speer data now...or something...huh-huh, huh-huh...)

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 12,208
P
Campfire Outfitter
Online Content
Campfire Outfitter
P
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 12,208
Whelen B. I have your page bookmarked. Some interesting stuff, as I shoot both the .358 Win. and .35 Whelen.
With that said, I too wonder about much of the published data for the .35 Whelen. However, considering the fact that I have seen several low numbered Springfields and at least one 1895 Winchester that was a 30-06 rebored to .35 Whelen, I can understand the reluctance of the publishers of loading manuals to provide full power loads for the cartridge. Seems we have the same problem with the 7x57 Mauser and 30-06 as well. Guess I can't blame them but I, for on would love to see data for those three cartridges loaded to modern pressure levels.
Paul B.


Our forefathers did not politely protest the British.They did not vote them out of office, nor did they impeach the king,march on the capitol or ask permission for their rights. ----------------They just shot them.
MOLON LABE
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,363
D
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
D
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,363
This is confusing.

I've shot 300+ rounds of 225 gr Sirra ove 60 gr R-15 in the last ten years. I still have quite a bit of that lot of powder also.

I don't quite get 2600 fps out of my 22 in barrel.

I have used the same load with NPT and TBBC [20-30 rounds of each] all with no pressure signs. Still on the same 100 cases 30 that are still unused. These get around 2640fps or what I get with The TBBC factory load. I used the same load with 200 gr bulk Core-Lokts but they shoot so far away fro the 225's that I don't use them anymore either.

This 60 R15 was the max load in the Barnes manual for a 225 X bullet a few years ago before I quit on them.

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,664
B
Campfire Regular
Online Content
Campfire Regular
B
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,664
My Ruger .35 Whelen as a custom barrel and I believe the chamber was cut on the tight side. I get 2700fps out of 225gr TSX with 55gr of RL15 in a 22" barrel. Much lower charge than most people.

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,612
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,612
Dancing Bear, When I first started shooting my Whelen I was able to use somewhat higher charges of RL 15 compared the newer stuff. I believe Alliant changed the powder a few years back to be temperature stable so something must have changed when they did. Nosler lists 59 gr of RL 15 for a speed in the high 2700 fps range (I can't remember the exact speed off hand, 2789 fps?) so I can't see why you would need to reduce your loads when you are only getting 2600-2640 like you state. When you buy a new lot of powder I would difinitely start low and work up carefully. With the newer RL 15 I get around 2650 fps with 57 gr and 225 gr bullets in my custom gun.


Gerry.
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,437
C
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
C
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,437
WB,
It is good to see you posting here. And, whether you knew or not, your first was on my birthday... grin

Did you get my New Year's greeting?

To the rest: WhelenB's a very careful and conscientious guy. I've known him for a very long time. And honest too.

Last edited by CZ550; 01/03/09.

"What shall it profit a man if he gain the whole world and lose his own soul" - Jesus

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,416
T
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
T
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,416
WhelenB- Ive followed Your data when first loading for My 350 mag. We have talked before. Although my loads do not contain as much powder as some of Your data shows, Your use of RL15 kept Me interested and has proved to be safe and accurate. Thanks. Don't miss meals!

Page 3 of 4 1 2 3 4

Moderated by  RickBin 

Link Copied to Clipboard
YB23

Who's Online Now
645 members (222ND, 160user, 1234, 257 roberts, 1lessdog, 2500HD, 73 invisible), 2,792 guests, and 1,328 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums81
Topics1,187,651
Posts18,399,172
Members73,817
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023


 







Fish & Game Departments | Solunar Tables | Mission Statement | Privacy Policy | Contact Us | DMCA
Hunting | Fishing | Camping | Backpacking | Reloading | Campfire Forums | Gear Shop
Copyright © 2000-2024 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.3.33 Page Time: 0.109s Queries: 15 (0.004s) Memory: 0.9042 MB (Peak: 1.0615 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2024-03-28 18:32:18 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS