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#2603419 - 11/28/08 reduced loads using Blue Dot or similar
rugercollector Offline
Member

Registered: 01/30/07
Posts: 238
Loc: Central Louisiana
Morning Folks,
Hope all had a blessed Thanksgiving,
Some time back there was a poster who posted some loads using Blue Dot powder.Ive tried the search but cant get any results.

Im looking for some for 7mm/08 in particular if anyone has some or can direct me to a source for this type data I would be very greatful.

Thanks a million
_________________________
RC

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#2603427 - 11/28/08 Re: reduced loads using Blue Dot or similar [Re: rugercollector]
FC363 Offline
Campfire Ranger

Registered: 04/20/07
Posts: 1714
Send a PM to Seafire. He has Blue Dot loads for alot of cartridges. If anyone had it, it would be him.
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"Give a lazy man the toughest job, and he will find the easiest way to do it"

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#2603444 - 11/28/08 Re: reduced loads using Blue Dot or similar [Re: FC363]
rugercollector Offline
Member

Registered: 01/30/07
Posts: 238
Loc: Central Louisiana
Thanks FC363
I sent a PM
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RC

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#2603485 - 11/28/08 Re: reduced loads using Blue Dot or similar [Re: rugercollector]
steve4102 Online   content
Campfire Ranger

Registered: 06/11/04
Posts: 2310
Loc: MN
Seafire, your up!
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Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Give a man a welfare check, a forty ounce malt liquor, a crack pipe and some Air Jordan's and he votes Democrat for a lifetime.

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#2605097 - 11/29/08 Re: reduced loads using Blue Dot or similar [Re: rugercollector]
Seafire Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 04/21/04
Posts: 21299
Loc: Southern Oregon USA
Ich Bin Hier!!!

give me some particulars that you are looking for...

oh like bullets weights and what kind of velocity you are looking for...

what is the application...deer hunting, kids deer hunting.. target work.. etc..

we'd be talking reducing recoil by about 50% for starters...
_________________________
Originally Posted By Rauncho_Bozo:

I run rigs harder than you can ever dream of, and have NEVER needed to replace valve cover gaskets as a routine maintenance item. Even under severe duty schedules.. Nor has ANYONE I've ever known.

UBER!!!




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#2605246 - 11/29/08 Re: reduced loads using Blue Dot or similar [Re: Seafire]
rugercollector Offline
Member

Registered: 01/30/07
Posts: 238
Loc: Central Louisiana
Thanks for the reply seafire
Im wanting to shoot 100 to 120s for my grandson,
targets for starters and then maybe next year deer hunting.
He hunted with me this year and was with me when we took 2 whitetails, he is hooked on both guns and hunting.
He will be 6 next season and when he is with me we hunt out of a box stand.

I bought him a Handi youth rifle when he was born and he is just now able to reach the trigger with the stock on his shoulder.

I loaded up some starter loads yesterday with H4895 and let him shoot at our range, He is definatly not afraid to pull the trigger and wanted to shoot more, he didnt hit the target but hit the dirt pile.

He has been shooting his cricket rimfire for a while now and does pretty good with it.

Thanks again.
_________________________
RC

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#2607067 - 11/30/08 Re: reduced loads using Blue Dot or similar [Re: rugercollector]
Seafire Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 04/21/04
Posts: 21299
Loc: Southern Oregon USA
RC...

blue dot is not position sensitive in a rifle case.. I have more detailed stuff, but I guess the best way is just to keep it simple.. especially considering this application...

your max parameters on a 7/08, or any 308 based cartridge, the max charge is 22.5 grains of Blue Dot... regardless of bullet weight... one should still work up to this amount to be safe...

on the low end, you can safely start at 10 grains of Blue Dot without getting a stuck bullet in the barrel..use either a large rifle or large pistol primer.. it really doesn't matter...

there are a lot of good bullets to start out with, particularly if they are going to be used for target work to get him use to them... from 100 grains, 110s, 115s, 120s, 130s and 139/140...playing with the 100 to 115 grainers is a lot of fun shooting for me... and them being varmint bullets, they can take a lot bigger head of game than you'd give them credit for...especially an antelope sized deer...

Accuracy will be a lot better than those H 4895 loads... those loads are only accurate if you can live with 5 inch groups and a lot of muzzle blast and a real loud retort when shot..

the ONLY down side to Blue Dot is load technique... you don't want to double charge a load accidently... the way around that is to charge a case and then seat the bullet before proceeding to the next round... that is the safest and the way I recommend doing it, especially as that is the way I load mine...

in our sue happy world, I can only vouche that they have proven safe in my rifles...but both the young man and yourself will enjoy shooting them... at 10 grains for starters the old 7/08 will recoil like a 22 mag...even at 22.5 grains its recoil will be greater than 50% reduced...especially with the lighter bullet weights...

good luck..
_________________________
Originally Posted By Rauncho_Bozo:

I run rigs harder than you can ever dream of, and have NEVER needed to replace valve cover gaskets as a routine maintenance item. Even under severe duty schedules.. Nor has ANYONE I've ever known.

UBER!!!




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#2607200 - 11/30/08 Re: reduced loads using Blue Dot or similar [Re: Seafire]
rugercollector Offline
Member

Registered: 01/30/07
Posts: 238
Loc: Central Louisiana
Thanks Seafire,
I agree 100% with those bullets being able to take bigger game.
I appreciate your information and I will be getting some blue dot as soon as i can find some.

My vacation just ended and I travel for a living so I headed out today for a stretch. So time and weather permiting I will give this a shot.

Thanks again and have a blessed holiday season.
_________________________
RC

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#2609633 - 12/01/08 Re: reduced loads using Blue Dot or similar [Re: rugercollector]
Seafire Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 04/21/04
Posts: 21299
Loc: Southern Oregon USA
This is work done on the 7mm Mauser. it will give a close to potential performance on the 7/08.. the difference is that the 7/08 holds 2 grains less powder for what is the max potential..

the 7/08 is limited to 22 grains max and the 7 x 57 is limited to 24 grains...

however a load of say 18 grains of Blue Dot in one should yield the same velocity in the other, with the same bullet weight...

it is important to work up.. as with any powder...don't start at the max... don't exceed the data I have listed... and it proved safe in my rifles is all I can vouche for...

when loading, charge and then seat a bullet before going onto the next one.. this will eliminate the chance of an accidental double charge...

you can easily go down to 10 grains of powder, but this info is for what I consider the useful hunting velocities...

Blue Dot Range Report: 7 x 57 Mauser

Bullet: 100 grain Sierra Hollow Point

Case: Remington, New

Primer: CCI Large Rifle

OAL: 76.25 mm

Max Capacity: 40.5 grains of Blue Dot

40%: 16.2 grains
60%: 24.3 grains

Tested: 16 to 24 grains

Rifle Used: Ruger 77 Mk 2, 22 inch factory barrel, Sporter Weight

Velocity Results:

16 grains: 2057 fps
17 grains: 2190 fps
18 grains: 2263 fps
19 grains: 2310 fps
20 grains: 2390 fps

21 grains: 2468 fps
22 grains: 2530 fps
23 grains: 2574 fps
24 grains: 2687 fps

Notes:
1. All cases extracted very easily
2. 24 grains was fine, representing the 60% mark. Increases can be made, but I recommend stopping there.
3. The rifle is long throated so the bullets were seated out to take advantage of that fact. If your rifle is not long throated work up to that point.
4. After 10 shots, in short succession, the barrel heat was minimal.
5. This load was tested at the request of someone who was looking to use this load for a Ground Hog load.


Blue Dot Range Report: 7 x 57

Bullet: 120 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip, Sectional Density: .213

Primer: Winchester Large Pistol

Case: Remington, 7 x 57, second time used.

OAL: 79.30 mm

Rifle Used: Ruger 77 Mk 2, 22 inch barrel.

Results:

16 grs: 1884 fps
17 grs: 2029 fps
18 grs: NO Reading, sorry
19 grs: 2187 fps
20 grs: 2275 fps

21 grs: 2327 fps
22 grs: 2406 fps
23 grs: 2466 fps
24 grs: 2529 fps

Notes:
1. 16 grain load was like the recoil of my 223 with Blue Dot loads. According to the Nosler reload manual’s trajectory chart, this would make a decent 150 yd deer load.
2. With the 20 grain load, you get into a 200 yd load for deer. 3.5 inches high at 100 yds will be dead on at 200 yds.
3. The 22 thru 24 grain loads, are definitely good deer medicine. 3.5 inches high at 100 yds, should make it a decent 250 yd load.
4. Nosler Ballistic Tip. I just like this bullet for this type of application, as it does a good job opening up and penetrating at the lower velocities.
5. All cases extracted easily, and overall, had no powder residue around the necks at all, like with some the 100 grain Sierra Hollow Point loads. ( exception was the 16 grain load).

I really liked this bullet and caliber combo for deer. I wouldn’t hesitate to use it on some of the bigger Upper Midwest Whitetails I use to hunt in Minnesota and Wisconsin.


Blue Dot Range Report

Caliber: 7 x 57

Rifle Used: Ruger 77 Mk 2, 22 inch barrel

Case: Remington, 3rd time used

Primer: Winchester Large Pistol

Bullet: 140 grain Remington SP

O.A.L.: 77.50 mm

Case Max Capacity: 40.5 grains of Blue Dot

Date: May 1, 2004

Tested; 40 to 60 % of max capacity


Results:

16 grs: 1731 fps
17 grs: 1856 fps
18 grs: 1912 fps
19 grs: 1958 fps
20 grs: 2051 fps

21 grs: 2146 fps
22 grs: 2194 fps
23 grs: 2256 fps
24 grs: 2335 fps.


Notes:
1.All cases extracted with ease.
2. NO excess pressure signs on primers
3. Recoil was very mild and tolerable for youths or women.
4. From 20 grains to 24 grains would be a good deer load in my opinion
5. 20 grains would indicate a 150 to 175 yd point blank range for deer
6. 23 to 24 grains would be indicated with a point blank range of 200 yds to 240 yds , in my opinion.
7.Nosler Ballistic Tip, Hornady 139 grain SP, and Remington 140 SP would all make very effective deer bullets in the ranges listed here.
_________________________
Originally Posted By Rauncho_Bozo:

I run rigs harder than you can ever dream of, and have NEVER needed to replace valve cover gaskets as a routine maintenance item. Even under severe duty schedules.. Nor has ANYONE I've ever known.

UBER!!!




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#2609640 - 12/01/08 Re: reduced loads using Blue Dot or similar [Re: rugercollector]
Dutch Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 01/28/02
Posts: 4422
Loc: Pocatello
While I have shot many, many plinking loads with Bluedot, I have decided to load no more. Even though I'm very meticulous about it, there is a realistic chance of a double charge.

Both Speer and Hodgdon publish very useable reduced loads. Also, the new Hodgdon Trailboss is near ideal as a reduced load powder. There is no need to take the chance of a double charge with a dense powder such as Blue Dot. Yes, I know you'll save a penny or two per shot. I'll just have one less beer on Saturday night... JMO, Dutch.
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Dutchboy Kennels, Drents Partridge Dogs

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#2609751 - 12/01/08 Re: reduced loads using Blue Dot or similar [Re: Dutch]
the_shootist Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 05/21/03
Posts: 19006
Loc: NW Ontario, Canada
My wife shot a lot of Blue Dot loads this year in her 30-06 with 150 gr bullets. Recoil and report were low and pleasing, as was accuracy. I had her plinking pop cans at 40-50 yards just so she could improve her time to the shot. It worked well. She bagged her first bull moose this year, and he wasn't wanting to stick around while she got ready for the shot. She did well.

We'll be doing it again next year.
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#2609780 - 12/01/08 Re: reduced loads using Blue Dot or similar [Re: the_shootist]
RockyRaab Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 05/23/03
Posts: 14776
Loc: Ogden, Utah
Dutch, do please note that TrailBoss is NOT recommended for use with jacketed bullets.

It's your choice whether to use Blue Dot loads or not. If you follow the procedure of charging a case with a weighed charge, and then immediately seating a bullet, there is a negligible chance of a double charge. If you use any other loading technique, perhaps BlueDot is not for you.
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Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult.


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#2609844 - 12/01/08 Re: reduced loads using Blue Dot or similar [Re: RockyRaab]
bassetman Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 12/30/06
Posts: 342
Loc: WI
How come every time Blue Dot is brought up there is always a negative remark about double charging a case? I reload over 3,000 rounds a year and have never double charged nor have I ever loaded a round without powder. Doesn't everyone shine a light over their cases in the loading block to ensure the powder charge is equal in all their cases before seating their bullets?

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#2609881 - 12/01/08 Re: reduced loads using Blue Dot or similar [Re: bassetman]
RockyRaab Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 05/23/03
Posts: 14776
Loc: Ogden, Utah
Nope, because some of us haven't used a loading block in decades.

Charge one, seat one. Problem prevented. Besides, it's the only practical method when using an electronic dispenser.
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Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult.


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#2609889 - 12/01/08 Re: reduced loads using Blue Dot or similar [Re: bassetman]
RickyD Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 30833
Loc: Iowa
I've always charged and seated, at least ever since a buddy split the cylinder on his Super Blackhawk from a double charge. If anything, I find it faster as I only have to handle the cartridge once for two operations and I know it's safer.
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#2610481 - 12/01/08 Re: reduced loads using Blue Dot or similar [Re: RickyD]
458 Lott Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 01/29/01
Posts: 15314
Loc: Conundrum, Alaska
As I recall, the max charges of blue dot will overflow the case moth on the various .308 based rounds. I never would have believed the accuracy of the blue dot loads if I hadn't tried them myself.

But since I started toying with .223's in earnest, I haven't done any reduced loads in the larger bores.
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I'm not a gunwriter, that's 458 win. I'm just a gun-nut in Alaska.

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#2610581 - 12/01/08 Re: reduced loads using Blue Dot or similar [Re: Dutch]
Jordan Smith Online   content
Campfire Outfitter

Registered: 03/30/06
Posts: 7896
Loc: Calgary, AB, Canada
Seafire,
Can you post data for the 50gr bullet out of a .22-250 please?
Thanks!
_________________________
"Others are happy to hit the rock, or maybe the dark spot on the rock. I wanna head shoot the mite clinging to the pubes on the left nut of the fly that's sitting on the black spot on the rock."

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#2611666 - 12/02/08 Re: reduced loads using Blue Dot or similar [Re: Jordan Smith]
Seafire Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 04/21/04
Posts: 21299
Loc: Southern Oregon USA
 Originally Posted By: Jordan Smith
Seafire,
Can you post data for the 50gr bullet out of a .22-250 please?
Thanks!


II. 50 grain Hornady SP, Win Large Rifle Primer

1. 7 grs: 1722 fps
2. 8 grs: 1911 fps
3. 9 grs: 2057 fps
4. 10 grs: 2206 fps
5. 11 grs: 2328 fps

6. 12 grs: 2473 fps
7. 13 grs: 2627 fps
8. 14 grs: 2729 fps
9. 15 grs: 2856 fps
10. 16 grs: 2940 fps

11. 17 grs: 3116 fps
12. 18 grs: 3181 fps
13. 19 grs: 3271 fps
14. 20 grs: 3354 fps

With this bullet, all the way to 20 grains was reached ( 60%). However, I would recommend max being set at 19 grains or less.


III Sierra 52 grain Hollow Point Match Win Large Pistol Primer

1. 7 grs: 1676 fps
2. 8 grs: 1841 fps
3. 9 grs: 1998 fps
4. 10 grs: 2127 fps
5. 11 grs: 2311 fps

6. 12 grs: 2416 fps
7. 13 grs: 2551 fps
8. 14 grs: No Read
9. 15 grs: 2795 fps
10. 16 grs: 2935 fps

11. 17 grs: 3029 fps
12. 18 grs: 3127 fps
13. 19 grs: 3252 fps
14. 20 grs: 3297 fps

This bullet also reached the 20 grains mark ( 60 %) . However once again I recommend max being set at 19 grains or less.

I've been shooting a load of 18.5 grains of Blue Dot in a 22.250 lately and it has proven to be quite the tack driver... another good thing about it, is that the brass does not even have to be resized frequently... I just deprime and then reprime and it is ready to go again.. doesn't even need neck resizing...

I am using this load as a test on stretching out brass life.. so far on 10 test batches of 10 cartridges each, several have hit the 20 reloads mark and are still going strong..

I am finding this will have an advantage when gone out of state on a prairie dog shooting trip if you can reload the cases without the need to neck size them even...they are averaging needing a neck size about every 5th shot only...
_________________________
Originally Posted By Rauncho_Bozo:

I run rigs harder than you can ever dream of, and have NEVER needed to replace valve cover gaskets as a routine maintenance item. Even under severe duty schedules.. Nor has ANYONE I've ever known.

UBER!!!




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#2611706 - 12/02/08 Re: reduced loads using Blue Dot or similar [Re: Seafire]
Jordan Smith Online   content
Campfire Outfitter

Registered: 03/30/06
Posts: 7896
Loc: Calgary, AB, Canada
Seafire,
That's awesome! Thanks for the info!
_________________________
"Others are happy to hit the rock, or maybe the dark spot on the rock. I wanna head shoot the mite clinging to the pubes on the left nut of the fly that's sitting on the black spot on the rock."

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#2612182 - 12/02/08 Re: reduced loads using Blue Dot or similar [Re: 458 Lott]
Gaviidae_Esq Online   content
Campfire Regular

Registered: 06/09/05
Posts: 1362
Loc: Bemidji, MN
 Originally Posted By: 458 Lott
As I recall, the max charges of blue dot will overflow the case moth on the various .308 based rounds. I never would have believed the accuracy of the blue dot loads if I hadn't tried them myself.


DO NOT TRY THIS!

As a rule of thumb maximum Blue Dot loads in .308 based cases are about 60% of case capacity.

Maximum Blue Dot loads in -06 and x57 cases are about 50% of case capacity.

GE

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#2612494 - 12/02/08 Re: reduced loads using Blue Dot or similar [Re: Gaviidae_Esq]
458 Lott Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 01/29/01
Posts: 15314
Loc: Conundrum, Alaska
I'm not saying to double charge cases, just that there should be an indication if you do.

As with any round and powder you reload, you need to pay attention to what you are doing, or damage to your gun and/or injury can result.
_________________________
I'm not a gunwriter, that's 458 win. I'm just a gun-nut in Alaska.

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#2612820 - 12/02/08 Re: reduced loads using Blue Dot or similar [Re: Gaviidae_Esq]
selmer Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 12/04/02
Posts: 6032
Loc: Upper Midwest
 Originally Posted By: Gaviidae_Esq
 Originally Posted By: 458 Lott
As I recall, the max charges of blue dot will overflow the case moth on the various .308 based rounds. I never would have believed the accuracy of the blue dot loads if I hadn't tried them myself.


DO NOT TRY THIS!

As a rule of thumb maximum Blue Dot loads in .308 based cases are about 60% of case capacity.

Maximum Blue Dot loads in -06 and x57 cases are about 50% of case capacity.

GE

I think he was trying to say that if you DOUBLE charge the maximum Blue Dot loads in the .308 based cases you will overflow the case mouth, which is true. NEVER fill a bottle-neck case with Blue Dot, seat a bullet, and shoot it, you are asking for some serious troubles...
Selmer
_________________________
Selmer

"Daddy, can you sometime maybe please go shoot a water buffalo so we can have that for supper? Please? And can I come along? Does it taste like deer?"
- my 3-year old daughter smile

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#2613293 - 12/02/08 Re: reduced loads using Blue Dot or similar [Re: selmer]
458 Lott Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 01/29/01
Posts: 15314
Loc: Conundrum, Alaska
Thanks for translating ;\)
_________________________
I'm not a gunwriter, that's 458 win. I'm just a gun-nut in Alaska.

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#2613371 - 12/03/08 Re: reduced loads using Blue Dot or similar [Re: selmer]
RockyRaab Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 05/23/03
Posts: 14776
Loc: Ogden, Utah
Even the explanation needs an explanation.

When Selmer said, "NEVER fill a bottle-neck case with Blue Dot," he MEANT never fill it FULL of Blue Dot. Some folks might interpret "fill" as "put in the powder." Incorrect, but I've heard it used with that connotation. Slippery stuff, this English.

When properly loaded with Blue Dot, a case will normally be about half full. That being true, the safe procedure is (once again) dispense a weighed charge into the case. Check visually. Immediately seat a bullet.
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Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult.


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