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#2713206 - 01/09/09 Re: Injury from Mossberg 100 ATR--3 men hurt thus far [Re: jwp475]
Calvin Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 09/25/03
Posts: 15131
Loc: AK
What a horror! Pulling the trigger on a buck and having the bolt come back into your face is a nightmare that most of us don't even imagine. If Mossberg is putting out bad products, they need to be held accountable. Let a jury decide.
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DIY, Fair Chase, Public Land Hunter

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#2713389 - 01/09/09 Re: Injury from Mossberg 100 ATR--3 men hurt thus far [Re: jwp475]
Savage_99 Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 09/01/03
Posts: 13624
 Originally Posted By: jwp475


Year before last the son of a man that I went to school with had a Moosberg bolt hit him in the face when he fired it at a Deer with factory loads (not reloads, the was/is not a reloader). The bolt lugs are pinned to the bolt body and the pin broke when the bolt closed and the lugs did not fully close. When he fired the rifle the lugs opend and the bolt him in the face. He survived and had to have reconsructive surgery. The doctor that performed the surgery said that he was the second victim that he had performed the exact surgery on another patient caused by another Mossberg.

IMHO the Mossberg rifle is a danger and I would not own or shoot one.


The Marlin XL7 bolt action rifle that I looked at has a pin that holds the locking lug section to the bolt body. It may be similar to the Mossberg?

"Up front, the bolt is very similar to the Savage Model 110. The bolt head is a separate piece that is pinned to the bolt body."

http://www.shootingtimes.com/longgun_reviews/ST_Marlinxl7_200804/index1.html

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#2713558 - 01/09/09 Re: Injury from Mossberg 100 ATR--3 men hurt thus far [Re: Savage_99]
bcp Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 03/05/05
Posts: 4359
Loc: SW WA
One article or post said the Marlin bolt head had a slot and key so it would still turn if the pin was out. I'll see if I can find it again.

Bruce

-------------------------------
Here's one:
http://www.marlinowners.com/forums/index.php?topic=29731.5;wap2

Here is why you won't have a bolt failure with the Marlin. I got to looking at the Marlin bolt to see how it could fail, and I don't see how it could. Mossberg, Savage and Marlin all utilize a bolt head that is pinned to the bolt body. Marlin however did design a safety feature into that bolt to insure that the bolt head will always turn with the bolt body in the event of a retaining pin failure.

The Marlin bolt head has a key slot that mates with a detent in the bolt body. Even in the unusual event that a retaining pin breaks, that bolt head will turn with the bolt and safely lock into the locking recesses in the receiver.

So I think you can be comfortable that you will not see a bolt failure in the XL-7


Edited by bcp (01/09/09)

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#2713598 - 01/09/09 Re: Injury from Mossberg 100 ATR--3 men hurt thus far [Re: ruraldoc]
Ivan Offline
Campfire Ranger

Registered: 02/04/06
Posts: 2343
Loc: San Diego, CA
 Originally Posted By: ruraldoc

My Brother in Law just bought one of the damned things,he did not consult me first.


Sure am glad I consulted you about the Mossberg rifles so many months ago, and went with the Savage instead.
_________________________
"Pick up a rifle and you change instantly from a subject to a citizen." - Jeff Cooper

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#2713796 - 01/09/09 Re: Injury from Mossberg 100 ATR--3 men hurt thus far [Re: Ivan]
sdgunslinger Offline
Campfire Ranger

Registered: 02/27/01
Posts: 1812
Loc: Gary , SD USA
Wonder if the Savage keys into the bolt body similar to the Marlin ? Anyone here ever disassemble a Savage bolt ?

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#2714871 - 01/10/09 Re: Injury from Mossberg 100 ATR--3 men hurt thus far [Re: sdgunslinger]
444afic Offline
Member

Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 107
Loc: Northern VA
I found the following about Savage bolts on the web (so take it with a grain of salt):

"In a few early production rifles there were several reports of the "bolt head retaining pin" that holds the bolt head to the bolt body cracking under heavy usage . This would cause a major stoppage. This was apparently a fluke as there have been no further reports of this problem and I believe that bolt pin breakage is no longer an issue and that there is no need to be concerned.

However, when notified of these incidents Savage Arms, to their great credit (and something other firearms manufacturers could learn from), immediately investigated the bolt head pin problem. While they were unable to duplicate the failure after some exhaustive testing they did come up with a way to beef up this part of the their scout rifle by using their "magnum" bolt head assembly.

The Savage Arms' bolt assembly incorporates a floating bolt head to assure full bearing on both locking lugs. To achieve this, a bolt head retaining pin is used as a "pivot" point. The firing pin passes through a hole in the retaining pin and is ultimately guided/supported by the bolt head. To increase the cross-sectional mass of the bolt head retaining pin in their magnum assemblies, the diameter of the firing pin hole through the pin was reduced."
_________________________
No possible rapidity of fire can atone for habitual carelessness of aim with the first shot-T.R.

Presidents come and go, but entitlements are forever-Michael Medved

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#2717203 - 01/11/09 Re: Injury from Mossberg 100 ATR--3 men hurt thus far [Re: 444afic]
AggieDog Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 12/28/02
Posts: 3781
Loc: Northern California
Also to Savage's credit, I have a Model 200 Stevens in 7mm-08 that would not properly eject the expended cases. Called Savage,and they sent at no charge to me a beefier spring with instructions on how to install it into the bolt. End of problem.

However, I am still shooting my Mossberg 22 rifle, and Mossberg shotgun. We'll let the jury decide the issue. I smell something really fishy personally.

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#2719963 - 01/12/09 Re: Injury from Mossberg 100 ATR--3 men hurt thus far [Re: Sitka deer]
sactoller Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 09/06/06
Posts: 7403
Loc: Weatherford, TX
 Originally Posted By: Sitka deer
For a number of reasons I do not consider Mossberg a company worth protecting. I refuse to have anything to do with them and will not order them for folks under any circumstances. Unresponsive and reckless would be two fair descriptions of their business policy...


+1
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Official member of "The Clan of Turd-like People"




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#2720104 - 01/12/09 Re: Injury from Mossberg 100 ATR--3 men hurt thus far [Re: 444afic]
drducati Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 11/12/06
Posts: 571
Loc: Fla
 Originally Posted By: 444afic
I found the following about Savage bolts on the web (so take it with a grain of salt):
The Savage Arms' bolt assembly incorporates a floating bolt head to assure full bearing on both locking lugs. To achieve this, a bolt head retaining pin is used as a "pivot" point. The firing pin passes through a hole in the retaining pin and is ultimately guided/supported by the bolt head. To increase the cross-sectional mass of the bolt head retaining pin in their magnum assemblies, the diameter of the firing pin hole through the pin was reduced."


I don't know how my Savage got the lugs it did then. I thought I would check them for engagement and coated them with Dykem. There was about 25% engagement on one and 40% on the other. So much for full bearing.
That being said the rifle would shoot .35" five shot groups from a pencil thin barrel. It was a 22-250 and my cousin has it 15 years later. He shoots 2-3 deer a week with it year in and year out. Did have a funny trigger though. It was LIGHT.
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#2720684 - 01/12/09 Re: Injury from Mossberg 100 ATR--3 men hurt thus far [Re: Calif. Hunter]
rust612000 Offline
Member

Registered: 01/07/09
Posts: 16
is there an actual news article we can read bout these incidents? i havent seen any yet.

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#2726925 - 01/14/09 Re: Injury from Mossberg 100 ATR--3 men hurt thus far [Re: rust612000]
Attorney_Holt Offline
New Member

Registered: 12/30/08
Posts: 8
if you search on google for Mossberg Injury Idaho--you will find one of them--my clients hit the press back in 2006 when he was injured and i have a copy of the article but probably cant be found on the internet
the 3 cases are all pending in court
one in the middle district of Florida, one in Idaho, and one in Loisiana

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#2726979 - 01/14/09 Re: Injury from Mossberg 100 ATR--3 men hurt thus far [Re: Attorney_Holt]
Attorney_Holt Offline
New Member

Registered: 12/30/08
Posts: 8
to AGGIE dog--i'm not saying there is a problem with the Mossberg shot gun or the 22--just the 100 ATR bolt action rifle
You keep "smelling something fishy" because you were not airlifted to the trauma center when your 9 day old 100 ATR exploded blowing your face off. I didnt believe in the case at first, but now that 2 other people were injured with the same rifle in the same way--things start to look (or smell) alot different.

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#2726980 - 01/14/09 Re: Injury from Mossberg 100 ATR--3 men hurt thus far [Re: Attorney_Holt]
Attorney_Holt Offline
New Member

Registered: 12/30/08
Posts: 8
to AGGIE dog--i'm not saying there is a problem with the Mossberg shot gun or the 22--just the 100 ATR bolt action rifle
You keep "smelling something fishy" because you were not airlifted to the trauma center when your 9 day old 100 ATR exploded blowing your face off. I didnt believe in the case at first, but now that 2 other people were injured with the same rifle in the same way--things start to look (or smell) alot different.

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#2727048 - 01/14/09 Re: Injury from Mossberg 100 ATR--3 men hurt thus far [Re: Steve_NO]
Attorney_Holt Offline
New Member

Registered: 12/30/08
Posts: 8


looks like the Savage has been around for 50 years, and without significant problems. I still have difficulty understanding the design difference between the Savage and the Mossberg. I admit to my shortcomings--and just seeking input. My experts did a modification that took a matter of hours to design and install--so that the Mossberg will not fire out of battery.

I print and re-read your memo--but dont really understand. The Mossberg assembly pin has a hole through it for the firing pin--what is the difference you are trying to explain to me.

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#2727371 - 01/14/09 Re: Injury from Mossberg 100 ATR--3 men hurt thus far [Re: Brad]
EthanEdwards Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 11/05/05
Posts: 34675
 Originally Posted By: Brad
Yeah Art, the new trigger was for no reason, right? Mike Walker's sworn and documented testimony wasn't real. The faulty M700 trigger design and FOSR's well documented both inside the Rem factory and by consumers isn't real. Your willful ignorance and double standard is fascinating.

The new ownership of Remington inherited a multi-million dollar slush fund because the previous ownership decided paying lawsuits was easier than fixing the trigger design... talk about not giving a chit about the consumer. At least the current ownership stepped up and finally did the right thing.

I'd actually own a Remington again... at least Mossberg, when it found the problem issued a recall. Remington did no such thing.


You can't recognize the difference between a gun that has a part failure and fires accidentally, shooting somebody that it never should have been pointed at in the first place, and one that blows up in the shooter's face when fired, due to no neglect of safety rules on the part of the shooter? Then you take somebody who can distinguish between the two, to task? You're a real piece of work Brad.
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Tell those protesters to kiss my ass.

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#2728769 - 01/15/09 Re: Injury from Mossberg 100 ATR--3 men hurt thus far [Re: EthanEdwards]
Sitka deer Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 02/02/01
Posts: 26341
Loc: Anchorage, AK USA
Cole
Hard to take him serious when he starts using trekking experience in Nepal as a substitute for hunting experience... Which is obviously pretty shallow. He did not even get the part about a Mossberg recall right... ;\)
art
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Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.

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#2728789 - 01/15/09 Re: Injury from Mossberg 100 ATR--3 men hurt thus far [Re: Attorney_Holt]
jwp475 Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 19541
Loc: USA
 Originally Posted By: Attorney_Holt
to AGGIE dog--i'm not saying there is a problem with the Mossberg shot gun or the 22--just the 100 ATR bolt action rifle
You keep "smelling something fishy" because you were not airlifted to the trauma center when your 9 day old 100 ATR exploded blowing your face off. I didnt believe in the case at first, but now that 2 other people were injured with the same rifle in the same way--things start to look (or smell) alot different.


Have you spoken with the man in Columbia, La that this very same thing happened to last year? with the same rifle also.
_________________________
Originally Posted By: Jeff_O
.they WAY over penetrate on deer...


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#2729038 - 01/15/09 Re: Injury from Mossberg 100 ATR--3 men hurt thus far [Re: Sitka deer]
EthanEdwards Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 11/05/05
Posts: 34675
Suffice to say Art, I'm not impressed with the boy's reasoning ability on this and other threads. ;\)
_________________________
Tell those protesters to kiss my ass.

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#2729840 - 01/15/09 Re: Injury from Mossberg 100 ATR--3 men hurt thus far [Re: EthanEdwards]
AggieDog Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 12/28/02
Posts: 3781
Loc: Northern California
The Idaho man you are referencing for people hear bought the rifle in Dec of 2005, and while Elk hunting in oct of 2006, and "while handing the rifle to his son" the rifle "misfired" and caused permanent injury to his hand. Again, I am not defending Mossberg, but Im not going to defend this hunter either. Why? Because there are too many facts we havent been told yet. For starters, I'd like some statistics on how many people have been injured from so called accidents with other rifles. I doubt the answer is zero. There are far too many things that may have caused this , not excluding the hunter perhaps being untruthful in his care, and use of this weapon. Did he ever take it apart to clean it? He had it a year, and I doubt that was the first time he used the rifle. If it was, some kind of hunter he is. Let's just get to the facts and then this story will have more legs. And Attorny Holt, yes I still smell something fishy when a rifle Misfires while handing it to someone else.

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#2730073 - 01/15/09 Re: Injury from Mossberg 100 ATR--3 men hurt thus far [Re: AggieDog]
EthanEdwards Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 11/05/05
Posts: 34675
Dude, you need to learn how to hit the "reply" button so people know who you are talking to. For instance, I didn't reference any hunter in Idaho.
_________________________
Tell those protesters to kiss my ass.

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#2731228 - 01/16/09 Re: Injury from Mossberg 100 ATR--3 men hurt thus far [Re: EthanEdwards]
AggieDog Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 12/28/02
Posts: 3781
Loc: Northern California
That sticker on your dad's bumper is my generation. Evidently, you did'nt learn much from it.

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#2731958 - 01/16/09 Re: Injury from Mossberg 100 ATR--3 men hurt thus far [Re: luv2safari]
ringworm Online   content
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 10/01/08
Posts: 11264
Loc: Southern States
 Originally Posted By: luv2safari
I seriously doubt anyone here would help you gut a great old American gun manufacturer.


im sure your outlook would be different if your 11 year old daughter had a firing pin blown thru her right eye and suffered extensive facial burning from the blast.

Nah, you'd probably want to "stand up for the company", huh?
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A truce is merely the seed for an even bigger battle, nothing is worse!

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#2737914 - 01/18/09 Re: Injury from Mossberg 100 ATR--3 men hurt thus far [Re: Attorney_Holt]
greydog Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 06/12/04
Posts: 2601
Holt,
The differences between the Savage and the Mossberg and the Winchester and the Mossberg are significant and obvious. As I mentioned in my PM though, I won't offer an education to an attorney for free just as an attorney would be unlikely to offer me free legal opinion (I once had one call me and ask me a question then try and bill me for a phone consult!). GD

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#2754634 - 01/23/09 Re: Injury from Mossberg 100 ATR--3 men hurt thus far [Re: greydog]
AimHigh Offline
New Member

Registered: 01/23/09
Posts: 2
I know that I'm jumping in on this late. I have been having trouble with a 100 ATR in .270 Win that I bought at WalMart last month and searched the web to see who else was in a similer situation when I found this. My problem started when I didn't find a warranty or registration card in the box. Also, the manual stated a 1-year warranty and the sticker on the stock stated 2 years. I emailed Mossberg customer service but did not hear back. I took two boxes of 130 gr. factory loads (1 from Rem., 1 from Win.) to the range after mounting a 3x9 Bushnell Banner. If I loaded 3 rounds or 1 round the last round would not feed (it would pop up and turn sideways). I thought I didn't put it together correctly when I took it a part for cleaning. Back home I re-assembled everything per the "exploded diagram" in the owners manual and tried some dummy loads. Still had the feeding problems. Emailed Mossberg again. Still no response. Called Mossberg told them of the problems and was told they would send a new follower/spring assembly to me. Was told that my sales receipt was my proof of purchase - no warranty/registration card provided. Still wainting on it to show up.

Did a close examination of the bolt. The bolt head/face, bolt body, and bolt handle are 3 separate pieces. All have to turn in unison for the locking lugs to engage. The firing pin passes through the pin that retains the bolt head and locking lugs. If the pin shears on one side there would probably sufficient friction/force on the firing pin that it would not move forward and hit the primer. This pin would have to shear on both sides, keep the firing pin aligned with the hole in the bolt face, and allow the bolt face to reamain stationary while the bolt handle was moved. More likely the bolt handle became dissengaged from the bolt body. During my military carrer I was trained to be the maintenance rep. for aircraft crashes (we called them "misshaps"). I am not an engineer, but for a great part of my adult life it was my job to find out what went wrong with aircaft and get them fixed. I would be very interested to see how this turns out for Mossberg. Also, I would think they would put registration cards in with new firearms to help "lawyer proof" themselves. -AimHigh

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