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#2726136 - 01/14/09 Best vintage scope?
GrosVentreGeorge Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 09/28/07
Posts: 496
Loc: Dodson, MT
I was just wondering, while looking at a Pre-64 model 70. What is the absolute best vintage scope? If you were to go with an all period setup what would be the best possible optic to have on top of it?
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#2726163 - 01/14/09 Re: Best vintage scope? [Re: GrosVentreGeorge]
passport Offline
Campfire Outfitter

Registered: 10/04/06
Posts: 7958
Loc: Rockford, MI
Im a big fan of the ElPasso Weavers


Edited by passport (01/14/09)
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#2726266 - 01/14/09 Re: Best vintage scope? [Re: passport]
TC1 Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 08/28/02
Posts: 6220
The best vintage I've ever owned is a Zeiss/Jena 6X rail scope. It will compete with anything made today. It wouldn't work on a Winchester though.

The second best vintage scope I've ever owned is a J. Unertl 4X Hawk. Nice scope.

I like the old Weavers too.

Terry
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#2726307 - 01/14/09 Re: Best vintage scope? [Re: TC1]
rifle Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 01/31/06
Posts: 5717
Loc: now in SC
I have several Lymans,still work and they're mounted on p64's.
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#2726844 - 01/14/09 Re: Best vintage scope? [Re: rifle]
AdkHunter Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 08/15/04
Posts: 613
Loc: Adirondack Mtns. NY
I have a Kahles Heliavier 4X, made in 1956, that was great then and is still working fine. The Lyman scopes were also very good, especially the Challenger 4X. I'm not sure if the Weavers were quite as good, but they are true American Classics, and you can still get them repaired or refurbished.
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#2726954 - 01/14/09 Re: Best vintage scope? [Re: AdkHunter]
Glacier_John Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 11/20/07
Posts: 817
Loc: Bigfork Montana
I love my early sixties 2.5 x 8 B&L Balvar on a Buehler adjustable mount. It's a pain to sight in, but once set it stays put. I really like the optics and tapered recticle. It's over forty years old but still my go-to rifle/scope combo.

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#2727027 - 01/14/09 Re: Best vintage scope? [Re: Glacier_John]
atkinsonhunting Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 03/04/01
Posts: 6954
Loc: Filer, Idaho, USA
I think the best ventage scope for a M-70 would be the 3X and 4X Leupolds or one of the old 2.5X Lyman Alaskans, thats what you saw on them back then if you lived up North..Down South was the Weaver 2.5X and 4X's..The old Weavers didn't fair well in cold weather. I know that for a fact, I was there! \:\)
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#2727070 - 01/14/09 Re: Best vintage scope? [Re: atkinsonhunting]
husqvarna Offline
Campfire Ranger

Registered: 09/21/06
Posts: 1654
Loc: Texas Panhandle
Unertl post WWII, Lyman Alaskan and Noske pre WWII.

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#2727113 - 01/14/09 Re: Best vintage scope? [Re: atkinsonhunting]
passport Offline
Campfire Outfitter

Registered: 10/04/06
Posts: 7958
Loc: Rockford, MI
 Originally Posted By: atkinson
The old Weavers didn't fair well in cold weather. I know that for a fact, I was there! \:\)



I never heard that before! What did they do, fog?
_________________________
It’s a magazine not a clip......

Advice is seldom welcome, and those who need it the most, like it the least.”
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#2727117 - 01/14/09 Re: Best vintage scope? [Re: passport]
BrentD Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 09/20/02
Posts: 11730
Loc: MN, WI, IL, MI, KS, GA, AZ, IA
A Fecker w/o question.
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#2727331 - 01/14/09 Re: Best vintage scope? [Re: husqvarna]
3dtestify Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 03/24/07
Posts: 1115
Loc: Central California
Husky nailed it. For pre-war M70's, the rare Noske No.1(2.5x) or No.3(4x)fieldscopes were without a doubt the finest American optic available during that era, followed by the Lyman (2.5x)Alaskan. Both are 7/8" tube scopes. The Noske received high praise from none other than the dean of gunwriters, Elmer Keith. For post-war M70's, The Kollmorgen (2.75x) & (4x)Bearcubs (26mm) are excellent scopes, with Unertl's (4x)Hawk & (6x)Condor right behind. Jack O'Connor thought highly of the Kollmorgen scope. J.M.H.O.


Edited by 3dtestify (01/15/09)

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#2736249 - 01/17/09 Re: Best vintage scope? [Re: 3dtestify]
PatagoniaHunter Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 02/16/05
Posts: 373
Loc: BARILOCHE CITY, RIO NEGRO PROV...
Hello,

My favorites and one of the best optically and in the mechanics are the Hendsoldt/Zeiss Diasta (steel)and Diatal (alloy) fixed, and the Diavari (variable). Also almost in the same level, the Kollmorgen/Stith/Redfield Bearcubs either 26 mm or 1 inch tubes. I am useing one Redfield 4x in my Winchester 70 .375 Pre 64. It compares even with both Hendsoldt Diasta and Zeiss Diatal (Really the same scope separated by 10 years)also in 4x. I have the last two in my 7x57s. Hard to beleve but the Zeiss Diatal 4x has very little difference optically with my Zeiss Diavari Victory 1,5 - 6 x at 4x. Even at night!
Best Regards,

PH

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#2736332 - 01/17/09 Re: Best vintage scope? [Re: PatagoniaHunter]
2muchgun Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 02/25/05
Posts: 13931
Loc: Michigun
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#2739839 - 01/19/09 Re: Best vintage scope? [Re: 2muchgun]
GF1 Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 11/23/08
Posts: 2689
Ditto Lyman All-Americans...my 4x on an old Browning Safari is still the brightest of any I have, including a Swaro 3x9.

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#2747227 - 01/21/09 Re: Best vintage scope? [Re: GF1]
3dtestify Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 03/24/07
Posts: 1115
Loc: Central California
My favorite Lymans are the Perma-Center All Americans. I own 4 of these scopes & they're high quality indeed. The aformentioned Noske fieldscopes from the 1930's actually had bullet drop compensation built into the elevation adjustment. The two I have seen were marked .270-150gr-2670sec out to 800yds, and .30-06-172gr-2700sec out to 1000yds. These were way ahead of their time.


Edited by 3dtestify (01/21/09)

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#2754509 - 01/23/09 Re: Best vintage scope? [Re: GrosVentreGeorge]
VarmintGuy Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 05/23/03
Posts: 7239
Loc: SW Montana
GrosVentreGeorge: The CORRECT answer to your pre-64 Winchester Model 70 vintage scope question is: the exquisite Leupold 8 power Westerner!
I have 3 of these scopes myself.
Two of them are on vintage Varminters and the third is in such MINT perfect condition that someday I will trade it back to the Leupold folks for a big variable Varmint scope!
Anyway these Leupold "Westerners" were straight 8 power scopes with an excellent adjustable objective system!
I believe it was one of the first factory "Hunting" scopes to have the adjustable objective system!
I have owned, shot and Hunted with these scopes on pre-64 Winchester Model 70 Rifles in calibers 22 Hornet, 220 Swift, 257 Roberts and then a bit later on a 243 Winchester (Varmint Model).
Even with extended continual use of this Westerner scope (Prairie Dog Hunting!) on the brighest of days "eye fatigue" (eye strain) for me was NEVER encountered! This is a significantly impressive comment on the quality of those American made lenses!
These scopes are about 1/2 century old now and very few modern scopes compare to them for the crystal like clarity of their images!
Long live Leupold & Stevens!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

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#2755158 - 01/23/09 Re: Best vintage scope? [Re: VarmintGuy]
Eremicus Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 03/01/01
Posts: 18881
Loc: Placerville,CA,USA
The older Weavers aren't the only older scopes that fog. All of the euro scopes prior to the late 90's are so prone. It seems that the euro makers didn't see the value of putting seals under the adjustment dials.
I'd think the older Lyman Alaskans would be it for that period.
When I first started big game hunting in 1956, I used the Bausch & Lomb Balvar 4's, a 2.5-4X scope. No internal adjustments. B&L had their own adjustable mount. Not the most rugged and cetainly not the easiest to adjust. E

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#2755180 - 01/23/09 Re: Best vintage scope? [Re: Glacier_John]
gmack Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 01/13/06
Posts: 1108
Loc: Central Virginia
 Originally Posted By: Glacier_John
I love my early sixties 2.5 x 8 B&L Balvar on a Buehler adjustable mount. It's a pain to sight in, but once set it stays put. I really like the optics and tapered recticle. It's over forty years old but still my go-to rifle/scope combo.


+1. I love the two I have. Shot an antelope at 301 with one. Bang...... 10 sec statue.....flop. Mine are on B&L mounts. No internals to worry about.

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#2755214 - 01/24/09 Re: Best vintage scope? [Re: gmack]
RDFinn Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 01/02/06
Posts: 17601
Loc: Bernardsville, NJ
They look something like this. I think ol E had one of these, maybe still does.


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#2755319 - 01/24/09 Re: Best vintage scope? [Re: RDFinn]
RAS Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 12/30/05
Posts: 6386
Loc: San Antonio, Texas
I like in order: Lyman Alaskans, Redfields and US Weavers.

Got them all....
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#2755466 - 01/24/09 Re: Best vintage scope? [Re: RAS]
drducati Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 11/12/06
Posts: 571
Loc: Fla
Lyman All American and Alaskan, Unertl, B&L Bal4 and Bal8 (even if he mounts were screwy).
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#2757206 - 01/24/09 Re: Best vintage scope? [Re: RDFinn]
Eremicus Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 03/01/01
Posts: 18881
Loc: Placerville,CA,USA
I had two of them. Had one get it's etched reticle shattered.
Gave the other to an old friend for his .25-06. By the time I found a mount for it, he had lost the scope during a move.
Knew a guy that switched to the Buehler Adjustable Base setup for his. It seems he dropped the rifle on the scope and bent the spring loaded rod on the rings that locked it into the B&L bases. The scope was fine, however.
I saw one dropped off of a high bunk on to the floor once. shattered the clear glass, slip on scope cover on it, but didn't hurt the scope. Another time, saw a write up in the American Rifleman about a saleman for B&L using one to knock the legs off of a chair. Tough scope.
I had to buy a Leupold in the early 80's because B&L and Bushnell hadn't gotten their act together at that point. Glad I did. While the B&L 4X I bought in 1972 was, and still is, an excellent, tough scope, it was much tougher to use in a hurry than my new 4X Leupold.
Ah, well. We have much better scopes than my grandfather used to hunt with. I think we can all agree on that. E

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