Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles Accurate 8700

Anybody know anything about Accurate's 8700 powder? They list some nice looking lower velocity/pressure loads for the 300 Wby. I'm talking '06 velocities here at 44,000 or so. But I haven't been able to find anything about it.

David

I used it in a 7mm ultra and got very good velocities with it. Should work well in a 300 WTB with heavier bullets.

i used it in a 300 ultra mag with good results

x2mosq.

where are you located? i have 1 1/2 pounds i dont use if your close

I'm in North Alabama, so that won't work. I was looking at Accurate's website, their load data, and they show a 300 Wby load that gets '06 velocities with 165gr. bullets. This thing causes massive meat damage on whitetails as witnessed a couple weeks ago, so I'd like to slow it down and bit.

Any suggestions? Another fellow who shoots 300 Roy gave me a load of 64gr. 4064 pushing 165gr. bullets at around 2800. Anybody tried anything similar?

Thanks,

David

My experience with 8700 in the 300wm and 7rm is that it needs a heavy bullet and fairly high pressure to run at it's best. When you hit this point it is one of the best for 7STW and the Uber Mags. I only used lighter loads of it for fire forming and was es-scared to go too light because of detonation possibilities.

Burns cleaner than some of the cannon fodder powders and is accurate, just didn't produce top velocities in those original "short mags" I tried it in.. I would go the 4064 route unless you literally had powder to burn with the 8700.

I've played with it some in 300 wby and in 300win mag along the lines of what you are thinking...that it would fill the case and slow the load down....it did both and it was accurate.
NOW FOR THE DOWNSIDE---it was extremely dirty when running the low pressures.
It seemed to take a long time to get the black out of the barrels after fouling set in a bit. I went the route of using the faster powder in the 300 win mag. I haven't tried the faster powder idea for the wby....it just isn't a deer gun in my book....although rem has been able to slow down the 300 ultra so someone should be able to slow down the wby....it's just that no credible people seem to have tried and there isn't data out there to use.

Re your 64 grain I4064 load I ran it past quickload and it said that it would give 80% fill and 2892 fps at 50 k pressure. I would say 80% should be plenty safe...if it didn't shoot with a 165 I'd try the same load with a 180...something could be very accurate and the 180 might slow you down a tad more. Using a tough bullet like an interbond, a frame, or tsx might also help keep the holes smaller.

I was using a 180gr. TSX started at 3160fps. Shot was at 160yds. Entered point of left shoulder, completely shredding the entire shoulder, boiler room, when I rolled him over, sounded like a bucket half full of water, exited behind the last rib on the far side (right) with about a 1.5" hole and a huge blood shot spot there. I like center shoulder shots or high shoulder. That's worked great with my 257 Bob, but I'm thinking through the ribs is the only way to go with the Roy. Otherwise, lots of wasted meat. I'd like to get it slowed down to around 2700-2800 with a 165-180gr. bullet, maybe a partition or the like. A friend from the Houston area gave me the 4064 load as that's what he runs in his 300 Wby. Says it is accurate and does a great job on deer and pigs.

Another powder might be 4759 which works well for cast loads.
I saw something that looked like it had potential on the gibrass.com site. Military surplus powder with the burn rate of 4350 but not as dense. This was pull down powder from 50 cal. tracers. I would check to make sure it doesn't burn excessively hot if they can provide any specs. Some tracer ammo is designed to be hot to help ignite the tracers. A starting load of 4350 would put you in the 2700-2900 fps range and any garden variety of 165 grain bullet should perform well, just as they do in the 30-06.

Not to divert the conversation from A-8700, but I wanted to make a comment about something Boston mentioned...

The mil-surp powder Boston is referring to from gibrass.com is IMR7383. This is a triple-base powder and can be VERY touchy if one is not careful. It does not like to be compressed, is very temperature sensitive, and does not necessarily act like 4350 throughout the normal range of applications in which 4350 is used. I have a bunch of 7383 and there are many good uses for it. I'd buy more if I didn't have enough already. However, I strongly suggest anyone who buys this powder to do a search for "IMR 7383" on the Surplus Powder Data Forum over at castboolits.gunloads.com and study up on it before beginning load development.

I've pasted in a couple of excerpts from some threads about IMR 7383 on that site which explains better than I why a healthy dose of caution is in order when using IMR 7383.

The first excerpt:

The main thing to remember about IMR 7383 is that it is a HIGH ENERGY TRIPLE BASE PROPELLANT that goes by different rules of loading density than the normal single and double base propellants that we are normally used to. The third ingredient is nitroguanidine, which supplies both the increased energy content and confers its flashless characteristics. It also makes it very "peaky" when approaching its upper load limits, giving absolutely no warning like the single and double base propellants do that a high pressure excursion is about to happen. This cranky nature is a very unfortunate characteristic of this otherwise quite useful powder. The reason why it is flashless is because it was designed specifically as the propellant for the .50 cal spotter rifle used to aim the 106 mm recoil less rifle.

Here is the other excerpt (I added the color for emphasis):

I just received the original report from Roger Bartsche covering experiences using IMR 7383 during 2002-2004. After a first reading of it I have to say that this stuff is far more difficult to develop loads with than normal commercial powders. Rather than sending out bunches of email attachments for those who request it, I'm looking for a way to host a download file. I'll post it as soon as I can get it set up.

Preliminarily:

* Don't develop a 7383 load without a chronograph.
* Don't use other powders to provide loading data.
* Starting loads should be around 90% of the charge that reaches the junction of the shoulder and the neck. This is not certain, however.
* 7383 seems to like standard capacity cartridges like the 22-250, .243, .30-06 and in between.
* Cases with big boiler rooms and small bullets seem to be dangerous.
* Straight walled cases are problematical.
* Pressure signs aren't gradual enough to flag impending doom.
* Small cases can't hold enough powder for useful performance.
* Useful load ranges are narrow, with optimum density somewhere around 90% to slightly compressed.
* Light loads or light bullets cause incomplete burning with serious unburnt powder and soot.
* Increasing loads past the point where burning is clean and accuracy peaks causes pressure to skyrocket.
* 7383 is seriously temperature sensitive.
* Optimum velocities are moderate, usually around 85% of what one can get with a powder correct for the case: .30-06 gets 2450-2550 for 150 gr. bullets. There seems to be a peak of velocity performance in the standard 6mm to 6.5mm cartridges.

If this list doesn't scare you spitless, don't try IMR7383. This powder needs extensive reloading experience and lotsa respect to tackle with any hope of reasonable success with safety. There are many exceptions to this list, read the report.
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Thanks for posting that. Looks like a powder for the looniest of gun loonies only. I am not that hard core not having a complete ballistics laboratory at my disposal.

My intent sure wasn't to scare anyone away from using IMR 7383, because it is great for certain applications--plus, it used to be relatively inexpensive. It's just that anyone who hasn't used it before should be aware that it has "different" characteristics which might lead to trouble if one isn't aware.

I forgot to mention in my previous post that I like A-8700 w/heavy bullets in the .300 Win Mag. It worked really well with plain old Hornady 220gr RN in my Ruger #1B. I forget the exact load data, but it was essentially just the starting loads from the Accurate #2 manual, maybe adding another grain or so.

We have the same issues here in Georgia that David (x2mosg) mentioned having in Alabama at the beginning of this thread; that is, the smallish Southern deer don't need all the power the .30 Mags offer--it just ruins good venison.

This thread got me looking at an older Lyman manual (46th ed?) which lists some .30-06-level loads for the .300 Win & Wby Mags using the old standards--IMR 4064, 4320, & 4350. Sounds like a project for this weekend, especially if it rains!

md, Thanks for the heads up on the older Lyman manual. Hadn't really considered that, but I've got some old Sierra and Speer, possibly Hornady, manuals that I'll take a look at. My friend has been using the 4064 load for a while now with no problems and I'll probably try it out in a few weeks. Got some loading to do now that whitetail season is almost over.

David