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#2819861 - 02/17/09 45/70 side by side
Abner Offline
Member

Registered: 02/17/09
Posts: 110
After four years of waiting, I finally got my 45/70 double. Wouldn't you know it, it's been raining cats and dogs since. Maybe I'll get a chance to shoot it this weekend. Anyway, here is the question. The gun comes with an 11mm dovetail scope mounting rail. Who, if anyone, makes scope rings and bases that will fit the 11mm dovetail mounting rail, that can take the recoil of the 45/70. All I have been able to find for the 3/8", 11mm dovetail are mounts for .22cal. rifles and airguns. I would prefer a quick disconnect set of rings, but that might be to much to ask. Any thoughts?

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#2820108 - 02/17/09 Re: 45/70 side by side [Re: Abner]
the_shootist Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 05/21/03
Posts: 19004
Loc: NW Ontario, Canada
Welcome to the 'Fire, Abner. Figure out how to poast pictures and put a couple up for us to see.

What make is the rifle?
_________________________
"Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life." (Prov 4:23)

Brother Keith


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#2820190 - 02/17/09 Re: 45/70 side by side [Re: the_shootist]
Abner Offline
Member

Registered: 02/17/09
Posts: 110
Thanks for the welcome Shootist. My new gun is a Remington spr221 made by Baikal. It's made in Russia. I will post some pictures soon.

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#2820200 - 02/17/09 Re: 45/70 side by side [Re: Abner]
Ready Online   sleepy
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 12/21/08
Posts: 5036
Sounds like Baikal MP 221 ARTEMIDA. They make a mount for it, but it is not QD.

Some German manufac. makes a QD but it is very pricey. If wanted I can get you more info.

If it is a Baikal (which I almost bet) it might be the best bet to take a good quality 11 mm to weaver profil adapter and have a gunsmith permanetly attach it (if it fits-rail would have to be high enough).

The 11 mm Rail is 1) not cross sloted 2) not very precisely machined on Baikals (return to zero would be a problem) 3) generally not common enough in big game rifles for manufactures to provide solutions.

I do have a Baikal Single Shot .30-06 that I went through with this. The factory rail was worthless. In the end I took it of and attached a steel aftermarket 11 mm Rail, cross slotted it and used Warne Rings (permanents) to scope.

I wish you great shooting and hunting with the rifle and look forward to some pics.

Perhaps I would also reconsider the scoping at all?
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Turdlike.



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#2820334 - 02/17/09 Re: 45/70 side by side [Re: Ready]
medicman Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 11/17/07
Posts: 3576
Loc: Ontario Canada
Abner
Welcome. the_shootist was just the other day suggesting I look at that rifle as I have a deep seated desire for a double, but a deeper seated desire to not remortgage my house. I do not have a stocking gun shop to go and examine one (play with). How does it feel to shoulder, and what are the triggers like. I am a long time fan of the 45/70 so this may be an alternative scratch to my itch.
Randy
_________________________
Praise the Lord for full Salvation
Christ Still lives upon the throne
And I know the blood still cleansess
Deeper than the sin has gone
Lester Roloff

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#2822265 - 02/18/09 Re: 45/70 side by side [Re: Ready]
Abner Offline
Member

Registered: 02/17/09
Posts: 110
Hi cmg - Yes it is a Baikal MP 221 ARTEMIDA. I have seen the mount that Baikal makes, and don't really like it. It looks to be very high and kind of strange looking to me. I was hoping for something a bit more traditional. If a solid mount, rather than a QD, is the way I have to go, that would be fine but I do really want to put a scope on it even though it is a short range gun. I just grew up with a scope and like them on all my guns. I was thinking of a 1-5X20. I think it would look great on top of those two big barrels.
I like the idea of the 11mm to weaver mount. If I was sure the converting base was strong enough. I will look into it. Thanks.
I hope tp get some pics. this weekend (scopeless ofcourse).

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#2822315 - 02/18/09 Re: 45/70 side by side [Re: medicman]
Abner Offline
Member

Registered: 02/17/09
Posts: 110
Hi medicman - I bought this gun for exactly that reason. I have always wanted one but never thought I could afford one. Well, now there is one in my safe! The craftsmanship isn't what it would be on a $5,000-$10,000 double, but if it shoots close to where I aim it I will be good enough for me. I'm already planning a cow elk hunt with it for this year!
The triggers are not the best, not even close, but I knew they wouldn't be. There is a lot of creep in both and are a bit heavy, but then again we are not talking about a long range tack driver. In my opinion, they are good enough for what I will use it for.
You asked how it shoulders? Mine is awesome. I had a limbsaver recoil pad put on it and a 1/4" spacer to make it a tad longer. The first time I put it to my shoulder I thought I saw a cape buff in the sights!:-) I'll never get to Africa, but this gun sure sparks the imagination.

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#2822471 - 02/18/09 Re: 45/70 side by side [Re: Abner]
salmonhead Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 12/03/07
Posts: 1230
Loc: Grand Rapids, Mi
I will be curious to see how it shoots. I had my eyes on those and was told by my local dealer they were not regulated well. I looked at 2 of them at a local gun show, but passed on them. If yours shoots, I may have to get one. Love the look and feel of a double, but like most here, do not have the $ for a great one.
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Salmonhead

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#2822588 - 02/18/09 Re: 45/70 side by side [Re: salmonhead]
the_shootist Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 05/21/03
Posts: 19004
Loc: NW Ontario, Canada
Can't seem to find any pricing on the thing --- anyone got an idea what they go for???
_________________________
"Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life." (Prov 4:23)

Brother Keith


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#2822758 - 02/18/09 Re: 45/70 side by side [Re: salmonhead]
Abner Offline
Member

Registered: 02/17/09
Posts: 110
It will indeed be interesting to see how well I can regulate the barrels. There is an adjustment jack screw between the barrels that adjusts the left one. So far, from what I've heard on other forums, whith a little work you can get them pretty close. If it ever stops raining here, I'll go and find out.

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#2822769 - 02/18/09 Re: 45/70 side by side [Re: the_shootist]
Abner Offline
Member

Registered: 02/17/09
Posts: 110
shootist - When I first started seeing them listed several years ago by EEA arms, they were under $600. When they finally came out under the Remington name, they were between $860 and $1,100 depending on where you looked. I got mine for $1,000 and was the last of four the gun shop ordered. They sold as fast as they came in. As far as my gun shop knows, they can't get anymore. Remington is no longer selling them and EEA is once again having trouble getting them into the US.

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#2829910 - 02/21/09 Re: 45/70 side by side [Re: Abner]
Abner Offline
Member

Registered: 02/17/09
Posts: 110
Well, I fianlly shot my new gun today. Two thumbs up! Three thumbs up actually because refering back to my first post, my gunsmith has some old style Warne QD rings he is going to mount for me. He has some on his 458 lott he takes to Africa. If they work on that beast, they should work for me.

Anyway, to the range. I was shooting the Remington 405gr load. Function was flawless. Easy open, easy close, and the barrels regulated just fine. After sighting in the right, the first shot from the left hit a full 12"-13" to the left. I was wondering if I was going to be able to move it that far right, but actually moved it to far and had to come back left a bit. It did prove to me that the barrels are indeed adjustable and regulate correctly. The only flaw I saw in the gun was that the back sight had to be pushed way to the right to get it sighted in. It looks kind of funky sitting that far over, but it is sighted in. The last six shots (three from each barrel) hit in a four inch group at fifty yards. That was encouraging considering it was the first time I had shot the gun, and that I can't remember the last time I shot open sights. I'm pretty sure I can cut that group size down a bunch once I get the scope mounted.

The gun is rated to #31,900psi. I have seen many loads that are at #28,000psi that push the 405gr to 1500-1600fps. This is where I hope to be with my reloads. The recoil will be more than the loads I shot today, but considering that todays factory loads were suprisingly mild in recoil, I don't see my reloads as a problem.

If you want a sids by side, but don't want to spend a ton of money, I would recommend getting one of these. It isn't a high dollar high craftsmanship gun, but it is functional and fun, and I know mine will be in my hands on many hunts in the future.

I have some pictures, but can't figure out how to post them. If someone will tell me how, I will be glad to post them.

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#2833449 - 02/22/09 Re: 45/70 side by side [Re: Abner]
the_shootist Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 05/21/03
Posts: 19004
Loc: NW Ontario, Canada
Here are a couple pictures of Abner's double 45-70. Sorry I couldn't get them all up as I am having "network errors."

Here's hoping for the best.






These are the two best ones, I think. There is another one that shows a picture of a target, and I'll load it when my network comes back. ;\)
_________________________
"Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life." (Prov 4:23)

Brother Keith


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#2842668 - 02/26/09 Re: 45/70 side by side [Re: the_shootist]
Abner Offline
Member

Registered: 02/17/09
Posts: 110
Thanks Shootist for posting the pics. They actually look better than they did in my file. Go figure.

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#2842676 - 02/26/09 Re: 45/70 side by side [Re: Abner]
the_shootist Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 05/21/03
Posts: 19004
Loc: NW Ontario, Canada
I have several files, and they all sharpen things. GROAN!
_________________________
"Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life." (Prov 4:23)

Brother Keith


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#2843186 - 02/26/09 Re: 45/70 side by side [Re: the_shootist]
medicman Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 11/17/07
Posts: 3576
Loc: Ontario Canada
Keith that one is bad even for you

Randy


Edited by medicman (02/26/09)
_________________________
Praise the Lord for full Salvation
Christ Still lives upon the throne
And I know the blood still cleansess
Deeper than the sin has gone
Lester Roloff

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#2845373 - 02/27/09 Re: 45/70 side by side [Re: Abner]
Strider Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 03/20/02
Posts: 735
Loc: The Old Frontier
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#2845447 - 02/27/09 Re: 45/70 side by side [Re: Strider]
Abner Offline
Member

Registered: 02/17/09
Posts: 110
Strider - Thanks, yes they will work. They are what I was going to get, but my gunsmith has Quick Disconnect rings that mount directly to the dovetail.

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#2848072 - 02/28/09 Re: 45/70 side by side [Re: Abner]
358mt Offline
Member

Registered: 06/10/07
Posts: 20
Loc: msla Mt
Here is some new info. Remington has dropped all, but two of the baikals. (Two shotguns) EAA has picked them back up under a sister company called US Sporting Goods. This also includes the old charles daly 98's. There are three different grades of doubles. The cheap, medium, and expensive so to speak. The cheap comes in 30-06 and 45-70. The med. and expensive come in 45-70, 375 H-H, 450NE, 416 Rigby, 470NE, 500NE, 600NE and maybe one or to others that I can't remeber. The med. and expensive are just finish differences. The med. runs in the $2500 range and the expensive in the $4100 range and the cheap in the $1100 area. Hope this helps. 358mt

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#2848125 - 02/28/09 Re: 45/70 side by side [Re: 358mt]
Abner Offline
Member

Registered: 02/17/09
Posts: 110
358mt - That is interesting news, Thanks. Do you have a web page address to where we can see them? I googled US Sporting Goods, but didn't find them. This could get interesting, a 450NE-600NE for #2,500-$4,100! They would sell truck loads! I hope they heve better luck getting them than they did with the first ones.

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#2848406 - 02/28/09 Re: 45/70 side by side [Re: Abner]
358mt Offline
Member

Registered: 06/10/07
Posts: 20
Loc: msla Mt
Abner There is no web site that I have found. But i have seen the cataloge. The prices are great if it works out. A gunsmith friend of mine order two of the cheap 45-70's and i think maybe a 500NE in the medium grade for a custmer. I'm thinking of the cheap 06 and the med. 450NE myself. I showed him a pic and a small artical from one of my dealer magazine; that was talking about the shot show. He love's the baikals and EAA guns so he stated making some calls. Also the cheaps have the regulating screaw but the higher prices don't so they most be factory regulated. They will deffently sell a pile of them if it works out. 358mt

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#2852372 - 03/02/09 Re: 45/70 side by side [Re: 358mt]
Abner Offline
Member

Registered: 02/17/09
Posts: 110
OK - Next question. I'm looking to reload for my 45/70 S/S. If I see a load for cast bullets of 405grs, can I use the same loading for a jacketed bullet of the same weight? In other words, is there any difference in pressure when using cast vs jacketed bullets with the same powder and powder amount? Thanks

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#2853587 - 03/02/09 Re: 45/70 side by side [Re: Abner]
Vic_in_Va Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 05/30/02
Posts: 5415
 Originally Posted By: Abner
OK - Next question. I'm looking to reload for my 45/70 S/S. If I see a load for cast bullets of 405grs, can I use the same loading for a jacketed bullet of the same weight? In other words, is there any difference in pressure when using cast vs jacketed bullets with the same powder and powder amount? Thanks


No. You will have higher pressure with the jacketed bullet.

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#2853713 - 03/02/09 Re: 45/70 side by side [Re: Vic_in_Va]
medicman Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 11/17/07
Posts: 3576
Loc: Ontario Canada
Most reloading manuals give jacketed bullet specs. Do not be afraid os the cast loads they are spectacular. Always use the springfield loads until confirmed by manufacturer that higher pressure loads are safe. I shot a bull moose a few years back with 500 grain hard cast, water squelched over 70 gr Geox FF that went in left rear hip( I know there are no hips on the front) and exited rt front shoulder taking out both joints and about six inches of spine. never found the bullet to see how it did. I kinda guess I know.

I have a Lyman cast reloading manual that has a lot of really good info if you decide to go old school.
Randy
_________________________
Praise the Lord for full Salvation
Christ Still lives upon the throne
And I know the blood still cleansess
Deeper than the sin has gone
Lester Roloff

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