Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Alaska Breakin' the Law in KTN

On a place like POW, I would think they would be encouraging locals to become guides. They complain about a high sow kill rate, but they won't let anybody but 9 guys guide for bears?

They need to go to a drawing system for the bears. Let the locals start guide businesses. Cap it at 4 trips annually per guide, who must be a resident of POW all year, to prevent the massive pimping out of bears. It would be good for the local economy and good for the bears. Non-residents would have a choice between a full time guide service or to just stay in a bed and breakfast and pay a hard working local guy with lots of experience to run him out and put him on a good bear for a reasonable price.

I see it as win-win.

Calvin ... It's not an 'IFQ' ... we have always been able to sell a Guiding business .. just like a fish Guiding business. Who would by a charter business or Lodge that doesn't have a USCG license? Or plan on getting one. Just like a hunting Guide business. Or any other Business that requires an Occupational License.

The difference is there is a USFS cap on POW Bears now. Just like there is a Cap on some Fresh water Guiding on POW ... Steelhead Days ... caps are nothing new to the USFS commercial users ... Down south there are many rivers capped (the Rogue for example) ... and USFS Guide (hunting, backpacking, wilderness, etc) days at max level with no new days issued on many National Forests. We never had that issue until recently on the Tongass .. first with Brown Bear and now with Black Bear. Various methods of transfer of permits for commercial use (loggers, miners, etc) is really nothing new. There is an ongoing process in Ketchikan right now (meeting tomorrow night) on setting the rules for the Misty Fjords for the future. The program is called 'Limits of Acceptable Change'. The end product is which caps will be placed at what time, basically. It's all a very public process. Many time the public dosen't agree with the final decisions but that is also nothing new.

You are wrong ... you do not have to Guide for one of the 9 POW Guides. A Guide license id a State of Alaska License and not area specific. What is specific is you must pass Unit exams and be certified for any Unit you will be guiding in. And then you can only have 3 Guide Use Areas to Guide in. POW is divided into 4 Guide Use Areas. North / South / East / West.

You can go to the Big Game web site in Juneau and see the qualifications to get various Guides Licenses. You must first Qualify for an Asst. Guides License and be an Assistant Guide for a minimum of 3 Years. Along with a bunch of other stuff to become a Registered Guide. Once you are a Registered you can qualify to use the name Master Guide after 15 years and other qualifications.

Fishing Guide licensing is on the near horizon as we all know, and it looks like it will be similar to the Hunting Guides License structure.

Lets say that a guide is permitted for 20 hunts for black bears. He wants to sell his business to another "guide". The 20 hunts are transferred to the buyer, and are part of the business? So essentially, the guide service is worth much more money because it comes with "right" to conduct 20 trips for bears. Worth much more than if no "rights" came with it? I know IFQ is not the right term, but wasn't sure how to describe it.

But, the "right" to guide for black bears can essentially be sold to the highest bidder? (with the business) What did a guiding service suddenly become worth now that they come with the bears?

Ropes
Yeah, a fishing guide license will solve everything... NOT!

It already takes a:
USCG license to run a boat
TWIC card
State Business License
Local business License
ADF&G fishing guide business license
ADF&G fishing guide license
Transporter License for big game hunters
Fed land use permit
Federal license to take duck hunters

I am sure I am forgetting some...

Without any consideration for all the required stuff that goes with all those licenses... And the ones that have been dropped in the last ten years or so I see a clear case where adding an Occupational license requirement to that will fix everything! Yeah, let's regulate this industry right into World Peace and Prosperity! How did we miss this obvious route for so long?

I'll give you a clue... We do not need more licenses. We do not need more IPHC Thieves ignoring the law. We do not need the Guide Board putting it to Alaskans for the sake of the guides.

Take the non-resident guide requirement out and make everyone pull a tag on equal ground... Perhaps with a cap on non-residents if the resource needs it... and let the chips fall where they may on guide numbers.

The saftey claims are bogus. The Guide Stewardship claims are bogus as history has proven. The courts (AK Supreme Court) have said the exclusive guide areas are unconstitutional. That should be enough to stop the feds from doing what they do.
art

Art ...

I didn't ever say I condone or support the upcoming Fishing Guide system ... I just said it was going to probably happen. I didn't say that the USFS or BOG or BOF or ADF&G or BGCSB is right in how they do things.

I just do what I do to conduct business and go along with what I have to .... make it work the best way I can for me. I have all those licenses and permits that you mentioned and more just like you. I don't like it but it's necessary .... just like you.

Ropes
I was not directing that directly at you there, but now that you mention it, you have become part of the system. You have repeatedly stated you take an active part in the process of making those rules. What it will take is for honest folks to throw the bastards out and start over.

The guide board was resurrected by Frank the Bank, just one more kick in the nuts to all Alaskans with 'em. You have stated your justifications for the system more than once.

As an example when the charter IFQ issue was going on I refused to apply for the giveaway because it was wrong. Money has corrupted the system and adding more money will not fix it.

Social policies designed to control biological systems are wrong. There are lots of ways to regulate hunting pressure. Holding the back end of a high pressure hose is not the way to spray where you need it. Zip code biology is so incredibly and simply wrong that justifications nauseate me.
art

Yes .. I have submitted 3 proposals to the BOG .. all have passed. 2 expanding wolf hunting in unit 1 and 1 expanding Wolverine hunting in unit 1 ...

I did sit on the Fed Unit 2 Deer Subcommittee ... I wore several hats at the table. A hunting Guide, a resident hunter of Ketchikan being restricted by zip code and a property owner on POW Island representing Hollis residents as past president of Hollis community council and liaison between the current Hollis community council and the sub committee. And I worked hard to address the Zip Code restrictions that affect both me personally in my subsistence use and in the business that I have chosen.

I am a member of the APHA which has helped us tremendously with our problems here in SE in dealing with the USFS.

I have been a USFS permit holder since '82. And have been involved in the Use Permit changes and processes over the years.

I am currently attend the monthly meetings of 'Limits of Acceptable Change' USFS process for the Misty Fjords Wilderness Area ... just like most guides of all the Misty users groups here in Ketchikan.

I guess I could be considered part of the System.

The guides don�t like the transporters & outfitters, the tran/outfitters don�t like the B&B�s, The AF&G don�t like the Fed�s, and the Charter boats don�t like the commercial fishing fleet�..yada� yada�yada�..

And they all mostly dislike us hunting and fishing residents�.or is it �residicks� as some guides say! It�s always the ones that are in it for money, that are the greediest!

While every one is pointing fingers�I have not once seen where any one is worried about the game, and the over hunting and fishing of most of our state!

Shame, Shame on all of you who�s not thinking of our game first! Makes me sick the things I�ve seen in the last 25 years.

Please one more thing�.will someone give me/us an intelligent answer to why non-residents have to hire a guide for Brown/grizzly bear, sheep and goat�.I know this will be good!

OK I'll bite ... I love everybody ... it's time for a group hug

I don't know if it's intelligent or not

I believe it was originally written into the Statehood Act as a means to bolster / create Bush economy.

In recent history it has become a Management tool for the ADF&G ....

A 5% or 10% cap on the non-residents might be a better way .. but even at that some hunts would become once in a lifetime or very restrictive draw even for AK �residicks�

Hows that !!!!! Flame away !!!!!

Or we could do what California does ... they draw only ONE non-resident for Antelope, Elk or Sheep STATEWIDE. But they give out landowner / guide tags and those PLM tags can be sold, guided, given away .. what ever the landowner / guide wants to do with them. So if your a non-Cali �residick� you either draw the one tag or hire a guide to hunt those species.

I do not recall ever getting high enough to consider emulating California...

My disgust for ADF&G rises every time I think about them, however. I do not trust them to run the tag lottery. It is obvious they are not up to the task based on performance. I believe everyone needs to have some chance of drawing a particular tag eventually (Delta bison, maybe not) and there should be a reward system for trying year after year.

My latest heartburn is the reporting. I got so pissed at the constant requests for me to resubmit the same report I sent the reports in by return receipt mail... Most they got just fine, but some were not there??? Went in with the receipt to tell them to screw off and they said "But the envelope might have been empty!" Seems they could have let me know if that had happened.

I am sick and tired of social engineering in hunting and fishing regs. It should take about three pages to spell out ALL the game laws, even for a state as large as AK. If shooting from a boat is bad it should be bad across the whole state, period. If it is not bad it should be legal across the entire state, period.

The nibbling approach proves they are weasels.

Giving entitlements to people based on zip code is not consttutional. That should be obvious. Anyone failing to get it should not be in on any decision making, period.

The guide requirement came WAY after statehood.
art

Are you sure ... I had a hunter a few years back that took a big 175 Ram .... it is currently ranked 86th ... he told me the story of that hunt. He had to hire a Guide to hunt Sheep .. but in those days an AK resident could buy a Guides license over the counter. He said he had been hunting Alaska for several years before he took the big Ram. What he would do is just find a young Alaskan in good shape with backpacking experience around the streets of Anchorage and take him to the ADF&G office and buy his license and take him on a hunt. Pay him a little. That way he was leagle. Sometimes the 'guide' would just stay in camp and he would go hunt solo. That Ram was taken in 1961. I am positive on that story.

That hunter prior to that Ram took what was at the time considered the largest Bear ever killed ... it was the center piece in the main entrance at the '62 Seattle Worlds Fair and toured the world with the Ripley's show.



I had another hunter that hunted Alaska in the late 50's and early 60's and did Guided hunts for like $2500 .. month long hunts for all species. Took several big Brown Bears among other things. However he didn't say that the Guide was required by law. But the way he explained the hunts I assumed that was the situation.

I believe I have been told by other old sourdoughs that the guide requirement was pre-statehood.

"My latest heartburn is the reporting. I got so pissed at the constant requests for me to resubmit the same report I sent the reports in by return receipt mail... Most they got just fine, but some were not there??? Went in with the receipt to tell them to screw off and they said "But the envelope might have been empty!" Seems they could have let me know if that had happened."

Been there done that. One year, I got 7 notifications- 2 or 3 days apart- for a harvest report I'd sent in return receipt. Answered every damned one of them and returned it, right there in the PO too!

I am convinced much of the problem is Friday night "clean the desk off" syndrome..... the rest is "make them file digital" (I'm happy- I get a receipt!)- the problem being that not all reporting was available, digitally- and then they were subcontracting it to Pakistan....

ropes
Need to dig a bit, but I know goats were added to the guide requirement in the '70s, perhaps early '80s. Kodiak started the whole thing when they made guides a requirement and that may have been pretty early... At least that is how I remember the timing.
art

I was an asst Guide in '88 when they added Mt Goat back on. At that time I was told Mt Goat was originally on the list with Brown Bear and Sheep but was dropped for some reason and they were just adding it back on ....

I do know there was some concern here in Ketchikan about during the early 80's about the rising Goat Kill numbers ... mainly from the non-resident hunter. Also the 'trade / swap' hunts that were going on with Goat. There were also some NR medi-vacs out of here that were a concern and seemed to be fairly common ... I was just talking with an old pilot not long ago about Goat medi-vacs in the past compared to now.

They still have issues and it pizzes me off!

Unit 1 Brown Bear reports can be filed on line. Unit 4 have to be mailed to Sitka. WTF?! Get your ship together ADF&G and go ALL DIGITAL!!!

All digital? With their system? What a joke!