Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles Ruger M77 International .30-06? Like it? Hate it?

Hey all,

Well I was going to buy this little Ruger Ultralite .30-06 with a 20" barrel after talking to folks here and getting some opinions. Went down to the gun store and they had sold the darned thing that morning. It had been sitting on the shelf so long it was marked down. Classic case of nobody wants to buy it till I do...

Anyways, I now have the opportunity to purchase a very gently used Ruger M77 International in .30-06, with an 18" barrel. To me, 18" is starting to get a little short, if only because of muzzle flash and report. I like a well done mannlicher style stock, so that appeals...

Now, I've never shot one of these, so my questions for you guys that have is:
How do they shoot? How does that stock affect accuracy? How was muzzle blast? What kind of average accuracy are/were you getting? What kind of velocity loss from an 18" vs a 20" vs a 22" barrel? Did you love it, or hate it? Made you buy one or sell yours?
And lastly, do you think that $550.00 is a good price for a rifle in near new condition? Great wood, no dings or scratches, no wear on bluing?

Any help would certainly be appreciated.

FWIW, I think that the Ruger 77 RSIs all have 18.5" barrels, but what is 1/2" among friends?

Is it built on a tang safety or a Mark II action?

I don't have a 30-06, but I do have a 270 and don't find anything about it particularly objectionable. I paid $540 for mine NIB a couple of years ago, so $550 without any wear seems like an OK price.

I doubt that you'll get MOA accuracy from many mannlicher stocked rifles, but if you're shooting deer sized game within a couple hundred yards, it probably won't matter.

Jeff

Tang safety, Mk II, or Hawkeye?

I currently have two RSI's, a tang-safety .308 and a Mk II .338 Federal. The .308 shoots well enough for hunting -- around an inch at 100 yards with a 150 gr Hornady Spire Point at 2700 fps. The PacNor-barrelled .338 Federal shoots extremely well. There are some tricks to know, like relieving the muzzle cap so barrel heating doesn't string shots downhill, but they tend to shoot very well.

An 18.5" .30-'06 will have some bark and flash, but unless you're shooting prairie dogs at night it should be manageable. Velocities will run 150-200 fps less than a 22" barrel, but still should be more than sufficient for hunting.

If you like the way the rifle looks and handles, then by all means buy it. Viability of the price depends on model and condition, but $550 doesn't really sound out of line for retail.

Dennis

The Fella says its a Mark II. Descriptions are all his. I'm gonna check it out tomorrow. It does have an inexpensive Bushnell on it though I'll likely be adding some decent glass to it soon. Private sale...maybe I should offer a touch less? Or have him take off that glass...

Asking what he wants for it without the scope is always a good bargaining gambit. Just make sure you get the rings if he takes the scope off.

Private sales are good, and save you the sales tax, if nothing else.

Dennis

I had one MKII in a .270 and hated it. Super loud with enough muzzle flash to set the woods on fire. Mine didn't shoot worth a flip and even with all the tricks I know to do to one. That even made me hate it more.

Now if it would have been a short action round in a rifle that was reasonably accurate I would have probably been in love. It was a beautiful rifle.

Terry

I think 20 inches is better for any Mannlicher, and the shorter cartridges like the 7mm-08, .308 Win, and .250 Savage are better than the larger cases.

That said, I have owned a Mannlicher in .30-06 with an 18.5-inch barrel that shot every factory ammo really well. It did have muzzle blast, but the recoil was not too bad.

I also have a Ruger 77 RSI in .270 Win that shoots well, and sold another one for a friend that I had shot one time with him and it shot tight groups with factory 150 CoreLokts. He loved it for deer but broke his shoulder in a fall, and just had to drop down to a .250 Savage and .260 Remington.

My advice is to go to your local gun club, find owners of some of these rifles and see if you can shoot one to see if you are really in love.

THE most accurate hunting rifle I've ever shot, since I started shooting about 1960, was a .30-06 Ruger M77RSI - which would put three consecutive shots with factory ammo at 3/4" @ 100yds, more than good enough for hunting.

It happened to be a Mark I, tang-safety, with a 4x Leupold mounted.

I wish I owned it - but I don't, so instead I was lucky enough to come across a .30-06 #1-RSI single-shot that's almost as good.

.

As Jack O'Connor once said about a short-barrelled gun that he had, it had a muzzle blast that laid the daisies low, and when he shot it in dim light it looked like the business end of a blow torch.

Having owned a .308 with an 18.5-inch barrel, I can attest to that. It was accurate enough, but you had to put up with the muzzle blast. 20 inches would be more to my liking, and then I'd stick with the .308, which seems to lose less velocity with shorter barrels.

On the plus side, they're easy to carry around and they look fantastic.

.......After all the work on the other thread, you lost out on that `06 Ultralite??? ......

Your velocity loss "per inch" of shorter barrel length will average around 15 to 25, maybe 30 fps. Not much difference in overall velocity between the 18" vs the 20" or even the 22" for that matter.

I`d look for another "NEW" Ultralite on Gunbroker. For me personally, I don`t prefer that "international" looking stock. That rifle looks like you belong in the French Foreign Legion or in some other European army and not looking a hunting rifle,,even though it is a hunting rifle.

Also, why did the last owner trade that Ruger international in or put it on consignment?? A possible problem??

I know! That killed me when that ultralite was sold. I'm gonna go down and look. I guess we'll see. He's also got a M77 SS Synthetic .280 for the same price, sans scope. Like that caliber. Maybe not quite as much as the plain ol 06. I'll give that one a look too... I'll ask about possible issues. Let you guys know.

Unlike some, I "like" the look of the International.....and I like the shorter 18 1/2" barrel (the main reason I chose a Mannlicher style rifle is to be short and handy, so why not go as short as possible).

I chose the .308 over the .30-06 due to the fact it performs better with a short barrel, but the '06 should do quite well too. Sure, there is going to be some velosity loss (not so important at "normal" hunting ranges, except the loss of "bragging rights" when comparing rifles with your friends), and there very much will be an increase in noise and flash. The noise is insignificant when hunting (only a few rounds are fired at a time anyway) and the muzzle flash may as well not even exist (unless you are in the habit of hunting after dark).

The one significant issue with any Mannlicher style rifle is that long forearm which CAN cause accuracy problems. Someone else mentioned making sure to relieve the end cap, and I'll add that the entire forearm should be bedded and/or free floated. I've even gone so far on some rifles of inletting a steel rod under the barrel to stiffen the forearm and prevent warping.

The Ruger rifles tend to have fairly straight grain wood, and that's an advantage as highly figured wood tends to wander more with moisture and temperature, but still the stock MUST be sealed very well.

The common knock on these rifles is a loss of accuracy when the barrel heats up (once again....relieve the forearm and end cap, and add a "stiffener" if nessisary...and this is normally solved), but this is less of a problem for a "hunting" rifle than many believe.

I've suggested to many that the "proper" way to test accuracy in a "hunting" rifle is not a 3 or 5 shot string, but rather a series of 1-shot groups. Hunting rifles should be judged by where it will place that first shot from a cold barrel......not where the 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th shots go. In a hunting situation, any shot after the first is probably taken at a rapidly departing deer and pin-point accuracy is much less important than the ability of the shooter to judge lead and hit a moving target.

I've suggested to those I shoot with that they set up a target and shoot 1 shot.....then put the rifle away until the next day, and shoot another single shot at the same target. After 3 or 5 days, measure the "group" to see how well the rifle performs in a "real world" siuation. Many times you will be very surprized at how well an "average" grouping rifle does when ALL shots are from a totally cold barrel. The Mannlicher rifles are almost always better shooters with a series of 1-shot groups than with a string of shots.

My own Mark II Ruger International (after relieving, sealing and free floated) will put 5 shots into 1 1/4 - 1 1/2" with a "normal" string......but will keep 5 single shots right at 3/4". That is more common than most believe, in ALL rifles.

After all.....it's the first shot that really counts anyway. If that first shot misses, the following shots are less and less likely to be effective no matter how well your rifle groups on paper (paper targets seldom bold for the horizen after the first shot).

As to the price....$550 is very close to retail and a bit high in my opinion (I got my Ruger with less than a box of shells fired through it, for under $500) but not too far out of line. If you like the rifle and style.....and accept the "problems" encountered with a full-stock rifle, I'd buy it and enjoy......and I'm sure you WILL enjoy every minute.

Well, I went and took a look. Pretty little rifle. Really seems to be in good shape. Looks like the previous owner took a scope off of something else and put it on just to get rid of it. Scope is all beat up, if I decide to try to buy it I think I'll offer $500 sans scope. Still maybe seems a touch high though. [Edit: after what I've been reading here. Though they want more on gunbroker.]

The .280 was nice. I don't really care for brushed stainless, but nothing a little duracoat couldn't take care of. Trigger had a bit of creep.

Hmm... Have to think a bit.

Only way to know is to chronograph loads through that rifle and one with a 22" barrel -- could be as much as 50 fps per inch. The only thing that really matters is if the 18.5 inch barrel will produce "enough" velocity, and I'm fairly sure it will.



I don't think the French Foreign Legion or any other European army purchased full-stock Mannlicher-Schoenauer sporting rifles to equip their troops, so I fail to see how carrying one could put one in mind of such a military unit. Lots of European and a few American explorers in various wild and unmapped parts of the world carried M-S full-stocked rifles in the early part of the 20th Century, but that's not a "look" most outdoorsment would likely object to. Even if they were prone to going around wondering what their rifle made them look like. "Honey, does this rifle make my ass look big?" is not a question I ever hear from my hunting companions...



Any rifle being purchased, new or used, ought to have a rather careful looking-over by someone sporting a clue. I've been rather pleased to buy a number of firearms the previous owner thought had a problem. Ignorance is frequently easily repaired.

Dennis

..........Pickin me apart are we now??? ..........

I must`ve watched too many foreign war films. Don`t know if the French foreign legion actually ever did use full length stocks or any foreign military for that matter. I just associate full length stocks with foreign militarys. But thanks for the history lesson anyway!!!......

I would buy it and not think twice.....I love my RSI and it shoots sub-MOA with my loads.

Robert

I bought one because I wanted a shorter hunting rifle. It seems to work OK so far but am still developing loads for it. The going has been slow because I am having to send the Leupold VXII 1-4 back to them again for not holding zero. Here was my only realy issue with the rifle. For some reason I could not move the scope as far back as was comfortable and provided the correct eye relief. Note that my rifle is a Short Action .308 winchester. I bought a $40.00 Ruger offset ring and it was "ok" the front optic of the 1-4 was just under the edge of the ring. I mounted a Zeiss Diavari 3 x 9MC on it and will continue to develop loads for it as soon as I can get any bullets from anyone which seems to take forever these days. So take a careful look and make sure you use a long enough scope with a long enough eye relief, OR you can saw the stock off I guess, I have plans to do this but don't know if I am going to keep the rifle until I finish developing a load for it. I would get a .308 over the 30-06 as the 30-06 does not make much sense in a 18.5 inch barreled rifle.

x2

I have a Ruger #1 International (aka "RSI") in 7x57... and like the "looks" of it's full Mannlicher-style stock and its 20-inch barrel.

Accuracy is very good as long as I'm shooting from a coolish or cold barrel, but not so good if I shoot repeatedly from a very warm or hot barrel. This factor is, however, in line with hunting since we rarely (or "never") shoot at game using a "hot" barrel, n'est pas?!?

Muzzle blast isn't bad at all, but you can certainly tell when you shoot the "new" maximum loads (50,000 CUP as opposed to the old "maximum" of 46,000 CUP) as both the sound level and recoil are noticably "higher".

I would think that maximum .30/06 loads out of an 18 inch barrel would undoubtedly be LOUD, but not prohibitive... but ballistics in such a short barrel (as opposed to a 24 inch barrel) would probably be at "old" .300 Savage levels (about 2700 fps out of a 150 grain bullet)... more than adequate for deer out to 300 yards or elk, moose and black bear out to 150 yards or so.

As far as how such a rifle looks... it is absolutely BEAUTIFUL !!! All you'd need to make it "perfect" is the installation of a Kepplinger Single Set Trigger with settings of 3 lbs on the regular trigger and 8 ounces on the single set trigger. That's the settings on the Kepplinger Trigger on my RSI... and they have provem to be excellent.

GO FOR IT, MI2007 !!!!!


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.

I once owned a 30-06 ruger 77 RSI that I just hated to shoot as this sucker would just pound yer AZZ to the level of abuse and make you hate the damn thing as the rifle has been gone for years and Ive never been happier,Ive got one in 7mm-08 and 308 win and they are very tolerable to shoot but that 30-06 was nuttin butt HELL on wheels.....................