Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Deer Hunting Kirt Darner Update Questions

That's always going to be the question, isn't it?

Had a conversation with him at a gunshow in Houston where he had a booth in the early '80s. He was a smooth talker, showed me his Rem ADL rifle and I even bought one of his books "Giant Bucks", darn!!

I read both of his books. I've since thrown them in the trash.

I went on one of his hunts in '85 near Norwood, CO. One evening I told him of a shot that I had passed on that day. It was a huge buck at a range that was unknown to me and decided it was to far to try.

His response was something like: Shoulda blasted away at him...ammo is less that $1 a shot!" That response always bothered me. I guess I wasn't too surprised years later when reading of his troubles.

Tx270: My main motivation by posting the "news" regarding Mr. Darner was to inform the populace of this forum.
After your snide and impertinent posting I could care less if you deem my reply to you as "rude and mean spirited"!
Boy, if you "can't take it - then don't dish it out"!
Again MANY folks were not aware of Mr. Darners latest "transgressions", and NOW, many are!
I stand by my original (and subsequent) posts.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

I knew this would be long, sorry.

I probably should just let this go....but......let's take it from the top:


In no way, shape, or form is this a defense of what Kirt Darner DID--and plead guilty to.

I've known Kirt for 35 years--he moved to my town in the early 70's from NM/AZ where he grew up. Although I had met him on occasion, I didn't know him personally until he and his second wife had become involved in our local RMEF Chapter--probably in large part to "redeem" himself after his brouha with the B&C Club in the late 80's.

In the mid 70's Darner killed a huge nontypical in the Nucla, Colorado area. That buck was eventually ranked in the top 10 in B&C. Darner already had 6 other heads in the Book. One was a pickup, the other 5 he had killed in NM and Arizona (allegedly).

In the late 70's, Remington "discovered" Darner and his 7 B&C heads. A photo ad of Kirt--holding his early model M700 in 7mmRM and his 7 heads displayed on the wall of Kirts barn was on the back cover of virtually every blast and stab magazine for the next few years--I swear at LEAST twice in every magazine.

In the early 80's during his divorce from his first wife, the wife acused Kirt of buying and/or picking up several of those heads. It was at that time I began hearing rumors about Kirt. By then, Kirt had begun to take advantage of his new fame, and began writing (or with a ghost writer) books, doing some seminars, and eventually setting up a kind of guide service.

In the meantime, Kirt continued to kill some big critters.

In the late 80's, Kirt was one of the founding members of the Mule Deer foundation. On the board was also a old time family business rival. Within a year, the business rival filed a lawsuit against Kirt, claiming the B&C nontypical was his, he had shot it in the 60's, and that the head had been stolen from his garage. Within months another family from Utah filed suit claiming their father had killed the same buck in Utah in the 1950's.

Ultimately, the situation was easily resolved. The head was sent to U of Arizona and carbon dated. Every living thing since the first atomic bomb was detonated can be carbon dated +/- 1 year. The head came back as having last lived in 1976--the year that Kirt claimed he killed it (besides the fact that numerous folks in my hometown had seen the dead deer in Darner's truck--including the local sherriff--and had signed affidavits to that effect).

But, B&C disallowed the head anyway, and Darner in protest pulled ALL of his heads (moose, sheep, proghorns, whitetails, muleys) out of the BC book. The rumor quickly circulated that BC had kicked all of Darner's head out--not true.

In the early 90's, Kirt's second wife Paula, killed a very large bighorn in the Taylor Park Reservoir unit--top 10 in Colorado, and one of the biggest bighorns ever killed by a woman. The rumors and accusations flew. The CDOW investigated. It was at that time that a retired Utah wildlife officer-who had a sheep tag for the same unit that year--came forward and said he saw the ram within an hour after Paula had killed it, and had watched Kirt and Paula for a short time with his spotter from across a ravine. That put an end to the investigation.

In the early 90's, Kirt killed a big Desert ram in Arizona. Shortly after the news and photos had made the pages of the hunting world, the guide who had guided Darner claimed that wasn't the head that they had killed. AZ investigaed, CO investigated, and when the guide saw the head in person, he was no longer convinced it was a different head. Investigation was dropped.

In the meantime, Kirt killed critters--including a absolutely awsome and the most beautiful mount of a huge Idaho early season nontypical still in the velvet. A friggin Brown Bear the size of a VW bug. And a huge moose. Also a big muzzleloader buck, that would probably come real close to making BC, and easliy make the black powder book.


A good friend of mine had a sporting goods store, and had most of Kirt's and other critter collections displayed in his store--it was considered the second biggest collection of trophy muleys anywhere. My friend had a photo albums on the counter of everybody who wanted to put their photos of their kills in the albums. My friend had taken a photo of Darner and his big muzzleloader buck in front of his store.....

..That fall, my friend was down in Paunsagaunt, Utah muley hunting, when he walked into a restaurant, and at the end of the counter was a photo of his photo with Darner and the big muzzleloader buck--soembody had surrepitously taken a photo of the photo in the album and then had made a copy of it! With the caption claiming Darner had poached the buck in Utah. My buddy made such a stink, he got the sherriff called on him. And he ultimately got an apology from the restaraunt for posting the photo.

At this point, let me say that Darner was a very, ah, aggressive businessman. He had been a timber cruiser most of his life, he was involved in real estate, and he had a lot of irons in the fire with the hunting world--seminars, books, videos, and outfitting. He wasn't rich, but he had money. He was always working a deal of some sort. And it seemed like every time he partnered up with somebody it ended up in a wreck. Everytime somebody "important" was in the room, you could expect Darner to buttonhole them sooner or later and be in a intense conversation--working an angle.....

So, by the year 2000, Darner had NEVER been convicted of ANY wildlife violation.

But....in 2001, Darner had a ranch leased near our place for years. And folks were willing to pay big money to hunt with Kirt Darner. Late one afternoon, while coming back from another lease, Darner with two hunters in the truck were coming down the FS road, and low and behold there was a big buck standing in the oakbrush. Darner's truck stopped, one of the hunters stuck the rifle out the window and shot......the CDOW decoy.....

The CDOW officers jumped out of the weeds, and Darner hit the gas and took off. Of course there was only one way out, and the deer fuzz had that well covered. Darner pulled over when he saw the CDOW truck coming up the road, and claimed he didn't know they were after them.

Bottom line: Darner lost his outfitters license for a few years and his hunting privlege for a year (his wife immediately got an outfitters license and they continued on for a few years).

In 2002, a lifelong friend of mine, who owned a taxidermy shop, had two sheep heads owned by the CDOW in his shop to be mounted--a desert that had been hit by a car, and a Rocky Mountain that had been poached. When my friend got back from a Alsaka hunt, his shop and been broken into and the heads had been stolen. Of course, he himself had to endure an investigation, but was cleared. The significance will become clear in a moment.

But, Darner's little brush with the law confirmed the many rumors, and the heat apparently became too much, so the Darners moved to NM a few years later. They started an elk ranch in partnership with a NM college regent. Unbeknowenst to their partner the Regent, the Darners had apparently let a few wild elk "wander" into their elk pasture (using the tried and true method of leaving the gate open next to public land with lots of alfalfa hay inside).

They then apparently falsified bills of sale and vet certificates and sold one of the stolen elk to a NM legislator. Who then discovered the elk was bogus when the state checked on it.

So began an investigation. Within the year, the Darners bought a ranch back in Colorado near my hometown, and were in the process of moving when a search warrant was served on them as they literally drove out of the driveway with the moving vans and pickups.

The search, among other things, revealed the two bighorn sheep heads that had been stolen a few years earlier from my friend's shop!

The bottom line:
The Darners were charged with stealing NM elk, transporting them to Colorado (Lacey Act), falsifying documents, and theft of Colorado state property (my friend was both releived to be entirely absolved and furious because Darner had befriended him and had been in the shop and seen those heads).

Last fall, I talked with my buddy who had just had a meeting with the prosecutors. They assured him Darner was going to prison for a long time. He told them if anybody can get out of it, Darner can.

Sure enough, 3 years after being charged, Darner struck a plea bargin: Loss of all hunting privleges for life in the world--period, big fine, and 1000 hours community service. His wife allegedly pled a lessor version.

So, Darner was never convicted or pled guilty to poaching of any critter.

But like a buddy of mine said, "Yeah, he didn't poach 'em, he stole 'em".............


Just to set the record straight.


Casey

$10,000 in fines and 25 weeks a year of community service which is equal to 4500 hours.

The charges against his wife were dropped

You talk about a top 10 non-typical he supposedly killed in the mid 70's, are you refering to the deer that was on the cover of his first book "How to find Giant Bucks"? If so, its been proven that this particular deer was killed by Dean Naylor
in 1948
http://www.hunts.net/images/Naylor8by10croplogo.jpg

http://www.hunts.net/images/DarnerZumbomainlogo.jpg

Same deer

Paula Darner is doing some kind of community work too--I talked to her for a few moments this past winter--I think she got a suspended sentence.

About the buck. One of the lawsuits came from a party in Utah who claimed it was a 40's or 50's buck, so I'm assuming we're talking about the same buck.

I personally saw a copy of the U of Arizona carbon date report with the court date stamp on it--it was submitted as evidence in the lawsuits--and the lawsuits were dismissed.

Now that doesn't mean the buck could've been bought, but there were also affidavits of people who saw the gutted buck in the back of the pickup--according to the folks I talked to.

It's just that there are so many rumors about Darner it's galactically confusing and difficult to sort the wheat from the chaff--and I have no doubt there is a lot of stuff--truthful or not--I'm not aware of.

Even the news reports resort to innuendo.....there's a Denver Post report that is incorrect on a number of aspects.



Casey

Thank you fellows for your observations and experiences regarding Mr. Darner and his past conduct and those past experiences/situations.
I also used to own one of Mr. Darners books - never having an inkling that there may have been any skullduggery concerning the harvest of Mr. Darners Big Game.
UNTIL!
Way back when I had two CLOSE friends who happened to be award winning life long taxidermists AND Mule Deer Hunters.
They both are members of S.C.I. and numerous other outdoor oriented organizations. They had occassion to "inspect" several of Mr. Darners Mule Deer heads and indeed one of those heads was "reportedly" recently harvested.
BOTH my friends relayed to me that they were extremely dubious of the game heads being harvested WHEN they were reported to have been AND that more than one of them had capes that DID NOT belong to the horns - I do not know myself - I do not have that kind of expertise but I do know both my friends (who were in business together) were convinced the animals had been "put together" - something a legally harvested and time correct mounting would not have incurred.
I sold my Kirt Darner book at the next Gunshow after hearing that report from my friends!
Subsequent events have only enhanced that decision of mine.
Again I hope Mr. Darner lives on the straight and narrow path from now on and once his sentence is complete I hope he chooses to Hunt (in those places where he is allowed) in the manner a true sportsman would.
Thanks again guys - interesting indeed.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Huntsonora nailed it/him big time. I talked to Rich LaRocco at length on a couple of occasions about that buck. Darner's proven to be a crook, no need to take up for him now.

I think the public apology I made was "taking it" in every sense of the word. I also stated I NEVER meant for my original post to be snide, or sarcastic in any way. Obviously you either refuse to believe me or you would rather just be mad at me.

BTW good job getting this info out, and I mean that sincerely.

Bill

JGRaider: I did not know he had written TWO books.
Good for you in dismissing those books from your library as you did!
I should have done the same with mine!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

see what happens to regular guys when they are given they're moment in the spotlight, fame is like a drug addiction
remember noel feathers, mitch rompola.
RR

I've often said fame and money can take you places your character does not want to go. I think it's pretty accurate.

That is very well said JG

Dober

Kirt Darner.
The Legend.
I have both books, autographed no less.

He has taken some great animals indeed, it is just the "other problems" that ruined what would have been a remarkable life.
He has a truly charming personality and connects with the working guy.
So many hunters easily connected with Kirt and worshipped his "success"
He was an instant hit at the sportsman's shows with his wall of "Booners" and pleasant demeanor.
Sold a lot of books and raked in a bunch of money with his "trophy leases".

This buck in particular nailed his ass to the wall.



Darner claimed to have killed the buck on the cover of his book in the seventies in Colorado I believe, 'The San Miguel river Breaks" to be exact when in fact the buck was killed in the fifties by a hunter in Arizona.
I have a video produced by the late Gordon Eastman featuring the "legendary" Kirt Darner where Darner goes on to look the cameraman in the eye and describe all about his magnificent San Miguel non typical muley.
It is really something to watch that tape now and watch him lie his ass off on camera.
With this hard proof of Darner's deception, many of his other trophies came into question as well.

This proved to seal the deal for B&C.
Yes he "volunteered" to remove his trophies but B&C would have thrown him out anyway.
The whole thing is a tragic trainwreck.

If'n I were a bettin man, I'd bet that he'll be caught again!

Just watch...

Dober

To the best of my knowledge, those are not the same bucks--the buck killed between Telluride and Nucla--the one on the cover of his book-- (along the San Miguel) was carbon dated to be killed in 1976. Darner allowed the Mule Deer Foundation to take the head to Arizona to be dated.

Again, I am not defending what Darner did, but there are so many rumors about what he DIDN'T do.......

Several photos from different folks of very similar bucks surfaced during the two different lawsuits from two different parties--and all those suits were dropped and/or dismissed after the carbon date report was produced.



Casey

There seems to be a very high proportion of "Great White Hunters" in the U.S. that have been "found out"--poaching or buying their heads. Or killing them with a rifle and claiming they were archery kills.......


Casey

Mark,

As an added note for those who are supporters of the 2nd Amendment, it is important to note that Darner was never charged with a gun related crime, never pled guilty to any crime related to firearms, but yet he lost all his gun rights.

It's how government "divides and conquers"........


Casey