Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting 30-06 vs. 300 win mag

Ok both guns weigh the same, both shoot just as accurate, the shooter has no problem shooting either very well. Is there any real world difference between the 30-06 and the 300 win mag out to 450 yards on elk?

My answer is "yes, but".

Yes, the 300 shoots a 200 grainer as fast as the 30-06 shoots a 180 grainer.

But in a world of TSX boolits, both will give you exit wounds.

BMT

the elk probably wont be able to tell the differance. MOST people have no business shooting (AT)elk at 450 yards

I shoot a 300 WSM which is very close to the 300 WM. I'd never try a 450 yd shot but I have shot a couple elk at about 300. A 30-06 will normally do just fine at that range. I was actually after a 30-06 when I bought it but it only came with a front sight while the 300 came with a clean barrel.

A rifleman who practices with his hunting rifle and varmint rifles during the offseason can make shots on elk at 450 or so yards and I have done it a couple of times. At that range, I like my 300 and 338 magnums, but to be truthful, I have never tried an Elk at that riange with anything but one of these. I feel more confident with my fast 30's and 33's and my experiences in Africa thell me there is a real world difference in killing power but Elk really are not all THAT big and a whole lotta Elk have been converted to bite sized chunks by the 30/06. With an '06 loaded with the Barnes 168 TTSX, a known range, an unsuspecting elk and a good rest I would pull the trigger at 450.... but i would still RATHER have a big 300 or fast 33. Clear as mud, right?

I think the 30-06 is perfectly capable of the shot, but I would personally feel more comfortable with a 300 magnum of some type. I'd stay with the 180gr bullet. I choose my cartridges and bullet based on what is perceived as the "optimal impact velocity" for that particular bullet. A nice, handy 30-06 with a 22 or even 24 inch barrel is great in the woods where shots will be between 50 and 150 yards. At those ranges, a 180gr Nosler Partition opens up reliably and penetrates at 30-06 velocity.

If ranges are beyond that, I'm assuming that the country is more open and a handy rifle isn't as necessary. For that, why not choose a 26 inch barreled 300 that pushes that same 180gr partition at velocities pushing 400 fps faster. That way, the same impact velocity at 150 from a 30-06 will occur further downrange with the 300. This will give you good, reliable expansion at the more distant ranges.

I have been practising with a Remington 700 police in HS Precision stock with a 24 fluted match barrel. We reworked the recoil lug.
With 150 gr. TSX Federal factory ammo 3" groups were regular from bipod in the field with myself shooting.

Not great, I am sure any number of dedicaties would be able to better that.

But good enough for hunting any game including roe deer at that range. I have been trying. For the life of me, have not been able to get in a shot further than 150 yards. Country open enough, just me, silly. Always could get closer.

Difference between .300 WM and .30-06 is the .300s ability to carry the heavy (180 gr. / 200gr.) further with flatter trajectory.

I've killed a couple at about that distance with the 300 Win Mag.I can tell you that it kills them,and pretty quickly,too with a solid chest hit.

I have seen the 30/06 used at about 375 yards;it killed them,too.

I would not want to get in the way of a 30/06 slug at 450 yards.This is anecdotal,but a reliable friend reports using the 30/06 in the SanJuan's with 165 Partition,and being faced with one of those last day "do or die" situations at about 500 yards,stuck a 165 Partition from his 30/06 into the base of a bull's neck as it quartered away a bit; the bullet traveled up the length of the neck and blew out near the head.This was,of course,a very dead elk.

I know the rifle, the shooter,and the load,since I helped him work it up; he was no doubt very lucky that day,but it impressed on me that the 30/06 is no toy,and likely better than many people who shoot it.

laker �

If the shooter is not prepared to take advantage of the additional range the .300 Win can offer, there isn�t much reason to use it. That is not the same, however, as saying there is �no� reason.

A .30-06 with the right 165-168g load is capable of delivering 2000fps and 1500fpe past the 500 yard line with a manageable drop. That is more than enough to take an elk cleanly, but I still prefer the advantage the .300 WM gives me at that range.

I have taken Elk with the 30-06, 300 Weatherby, 338 Win and the 338 Lapua. The 30-06 has put Elk on the ground as fast as any of ther other calibers for me and I have complete confidence in the 30-065 with a proper bullet to take Elk at or beyound 500 yards.

The 30-06 just flat out works

Exactly...

I totally agree with this statement. If you are buying a 300WM to do 450yrd shots, I would first learn/practice how to call elk, bring them in (thats the fun part) and stalk to within closer ranges to make a good clean kill.

Comparing 180gr bullets in each caliber, the 300WM will have more velocity and delivery more energy at 450yrds.

Problem is, they don't always come and getting closer is not always an option.

Laker I certainly think so! The 30-06 was deemed a 350 yard caliber in a hunting rifle, by those who hunted with it starting from several decades ago. They took into account the trajectory at usually a 250 yard zero. Once the Magnum caliber's hit the public starting back in 1958 there abouts, it allowed a hunter to increase his down range yardage by at least a 100 yards or more.

Also there is a big difference in kinetic energy delivered to the animal at say 200 yards, 30-06 with 180 grn. bullet weight has 2300-lbs. at a Max velocity of around 2770fps. Now the .300 Win mag with same 180 grn. bullet and having a faster velocity of at least 250fps, is going 3,000fps and kinetic energy is around 2700-lbs.

I have handloaded my 300 Win mag with same bullet to a Max of 3140fps, which gives 500-lbs more kinetic energy than the 30-06. However, there is a price to pay for all things gained and that is RECOIL with a capitol "R"! This can ruin a shooters accuracy down range. There are by the way several devices to tame Recoil down so as the shooter can handle the jump in caliber.

Now I have seen with my own eyes, elk shot with a 30-06 passed 400 yards and killed dead as a door nail. I have seen elk shot with a .300 Win mag at close to 600 yards and killed just as dead. However, I view the yardage difference as 100 yards between them period.

I don't shoot 500 or 600 yards for elk or deer! I would shoot at a bull elk with a 30-06 as far out as 350 yards, if things were just right etc. They are both very good calibers but Craig Boddington says, minimum calbier for elk is a 30-06 with 180 grain bullet. I used a 300 Win mag a lot, when I was hunting elk a long time ago. It is really a grand big game caliber, that you can find shells for just about any place out West.

If you have one, you really don't need the other.

In the interest of full disclosure, I do have a couple of '06s, a .300 WM, a .300 WSM and a .300 Wby.--but I only hunt with one at a time. I got rid of the .30-338 because it seemed redundant...

At 450 yards I think either will work fine. With good bullets and good bullet placement I dont see a HUGE difference.

I have a personal place for a 30-06, though also I'm not the kind of guy shooting at elk at 450 most times. I did a hunt on the OPEN prairies this year.....not a shrub/tree/bush on the entire area I hunted. This is an honest statement, its the most open country a guy could hunt. Ended up shooting my bull at 328 yards and was lucky......

Magnum. I'd use the 180 grain bullets, flatter tragectory, easier to hit with, not to mention more energy when it hits.

If you can handle the additional recoil the I would advise anyone to shoot all the gun they can..You can be under gunned but never over gunned...

I know for a fact that a 250 Savage will kill elk or a 25-35 for that matter, but in todays world with costly pack in hunts, they fact that you don't see many elk as a rule, etc..one never makes a mistake with the larger bores, but only if he can handle the recoil...My elk rifle is the 338 Win. is does its work under any conditions and I don't pass up shots that a lesser rifle might dictate, especially going away shots..You might not see another bull in Idaho if you pass one up these days, but you might get several wolves!! :):)

Laker years ago some gun rag stated that the "experts" agreed that a good elk rifle was one in a caliber that could deliver some 1,500 pounds of kinetic energy to the animal, nothing was said about the yardage downrange, just that most elk hunters shot elk at 100 to 300 yards for the most part back in those days.

Now first of all, I am old school and we never had any classes in physics or kinetic energy, for hunters back in my neck of the woods. I never saw an elk tagged out with how much kinetic energy killed the critter ok.

All I know for sure is the bullet must be placed into the vital zone of the animal and must do it's job of mushrooming out to near twice the caliber thereabouts and continue to penetrate the vital organs causing severe damage to said organs. Thus creating heart stoppage from loss or blood or even a blown up heart organ.

Now if both calibers using same bullet and velocities as above and zeroed in at 250 yards: The .300 Win mag shoots about 5 inches less or flatter at 400 yards, verses the 30-06 give or take an inch as my memory serves me ok.

And a GREAT BULL he was/is on your wall!

CoyoteHunter, I dont think everyone practices out to 450+ yrds. Some people do and the ones that know the ballistics of their caliber/load and spend the time at the range will make clean kills most of the time.

As for Rackmastr's bull he was in wide open prairie with no cover to stalk closer with out being seen would be my guess and from reading his posts on alot of hunting forums, I believe he knows his rifles.

I think too many people are watching those long shot kill videos at 800yrds and think they can do it. To me its unethical at those distances (800). I bet they don show those poor hit and no recovery animals.

J.M.O.