Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Mule Deer and others - 7X57 Mauser loading info ???

OK, my .02 too. Only load we've handload for son's Ruger 77 is H4350 50.0 gr under a 140 gr Accubomb w/Fed 210's. Been told that's not too hot but don't know the velocity. Do know it shoots 2 1/2" 200 yd groups and smacks deer w/o a lot of bloodshot. What velocity should this be turning JB?? 2800ish?

46.0 grains of H4350 - 154 grain Hornady IB - 2700 fps.
46.0 grains of H4350 - 160 grain Nosler Partition - 2700 fps.
48.0 grains of H4350 - 140 grain Nosler Partition - 2830 fps.
All shoot MOA from my 98 24" barrel.

The muzzle velocity would depend on the age of the 77. Older ones had LONG throats, newer ones have much shorter throats.

It really doesn't matter a lot, though, if the deer are dying!

Yeah, absolute fps is way down the priority list. This 77 is a 1972 model and it does have a fairly long throat. Forgot the COL but again that's way down the list too as long as it shoots. Doesn't like either the 120 gr Sierra or 120 TSX. Those were trial runs that didn't warrant pursuit after the Accu loads were shot. You know, off the subject a little, but after deciding anything over 250 yds would be a long shot for my deer hunting I started sighting in our deer rifles (6.5 Swed, .260, 7mm-08, .270 etc) at 200 yds and discovered all tended to be about 1 to 1 1/2" high at 100 yds and even closer to POI at 50. Seems to work with velocities from 2700 t0 3000 or so with bullets from 120 gr to 150ish. With this midrange trajectory and enough velocity to make a bullet expand, hitting and killing deer is achievable.

I learn something new every day...didn't know that one. Sooo, taking into account your caveat about increased pressure at higher temperatures, could these powders and their data be used interchangeably for the 7x57 and other cartridges across the board?
Really interested as a good friend gave me a couple pounds of 760 I'm not sure what to do with yet...
Ingwe

My Speer #13 manual shows 7x57 load data for both H414 and W760. The charges and velocities shown are significantly different for the same bullet. Are we certain that H414 and W760 really the same powder? Maybe they weren't the same when the load data in the Speer #13 manual was developed.

?

All powders vary somewhat from lot to lot, which can account for manual differences. But yes, they are the same powder, and always have been.

H110 and Win. 296 are the same as well.

My #1A 7X57 with long throat loves 49.5gr of 4350 under a 140 Nos PT for an average of 2790 at 50 degrees.

Big Redhead,

I had to get out my #13 Speer manual after your comment about the differences in 7x57 data between 760 and 414. Here is what I found listed in maximum loads:

110-grain: 760--54.0 grains/3250 fps
414--54.0/3141

115-grain: 760--53.0/3095
414--53.0/3053

120-grain: 760--47.0/2778
414--48.0/2851

130-grain: 760--50.0/2960
414--50.0/2952

145-grain: 760--50.0/2743
414--50.0/2748

160-grain: 760--46.0/2605
414--46.0/2582

175-grain: 760--44.0/2442
414--44.0/2403

Pleae note that in only one bullet weight is there a 1-grain difference in the maximum powder charge. The others are all exactly the same. And with the 120-grain bullet, if the powder charges were the same the muzzle velocity would be about the same.

There are some differences in muzzle velocity, though the only really significant one is with the lightest bullet weight. The others are so similar that they could be averages from different 10-shot strings done on the same day.

I also looked at a bunch of the other 760/414 data in the Speer manual. Very occasionally the maximum charges varied by 2-3 grains, but only in fairly large cases (60 grains or more) at the extremes of the powder's usefulness. This is also pretty normal. 760/414 is a powder best suited to medium-sized cases with medium to heavy weight bullets. When used with lighter bullets or in cases with large capacity to bore size, performance varies more.

These 2-3 grain differences in FEW instances could be due to the normal variations in a 10-shot string, or to using different lots of powder. Some of the data may have been shot months or even years before the other data. This is also quite common in loading manuals, and the company doesn't see any reason to re-shoot the load if the performance is still within the normal range.

I have seen many powders change enough between lots that charges had to be adjusted 2 grains in the same rifle in cartridge cases of 50-60 grains powder capacity. This is a 3-4% variation.

I didn't go through the entire manual to see how many times the data for 760/414 was essentially identical, but did look through all the rifle data from .25 to .30 caliber. About 80% of the time the maximum loads listed for any bullet weight/case combo are identical, and muzzle velocity as close as two 10-shot strings would be with any chronographing done on the same day.

You will notice the same level of agreement in 760/414 data in any current manual.

JB, thanks for that input, now I can go forth and use up some of my 760.
Along the same lines I was told years ago that 748 and H322 were the same powder...any truth to that one?
Ingwe

No, it isn't true.

There's a big difference between 322 and 748 data in all the manuals, as much as 3-4 grains in charges in cases in the .223 class. That's a difference of 12-16%, and it's consistent across the spectrum of suitable cartridges.

Good... thanks JB. I never tried to interchange, as my info source always seemed like he needed some B.S. ( and thats not Barsness-Sisk) Repellant...
Ingwe

I use a fair bit of 735, but only in the 223 and AI. It seems virtually identical to 322 in that application.

I was thinking more along the lines of H335 and W748 being the same. Could that be the case? Both seem somewhat close to TAC either way.

Never used H322, is it even a ball powder?

Mule Deer,
Thank you for the insight on the loads I asked about and all the other stuff. This thread has evolved to many topics much like a real face to face campfire. It epitomizes what can happen if people are civil and participate without rancor and accept the input of others around the fire. Sometimes having a roasted marshmallow with cracker and chocolate relaxes people and fosters the spirit of the Campfire. Unlike many other threads recently! Thanks again for your participation!

Ruger280,

H335, 748 and TAC are all ball powders, but they are all different powders and not interchangeable.

rflshtr,

You're welcome. The Campfire can be a warming experience!

Good, I was kinda wondering about the 748 and 335 too, thanx JB.
Ingwe

Win296=H110
W760=H414

Thanks JB!

At the risk of sounding like a politician, W748 and H335 are the same powder and are different powders.

It goes something like this,these two are manufactuted exactly the same,both are taken out of the same large bin.

But the variuos lots of H335 and W748 are blended to meet specs that while close,may not be entirely the same.

One is tested to comply with H335 specs and the other complies with W748 specs.

These are just different enough that the companies will not say they are interchangable.

So at the risk of sounding like Bill Clinton,it depends on how you define "same".