Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting 30-06 vs. 300 win mag

IMO/E, the condition of one's lungs and legs will have much more to do with the success of an elk hunt.

Maybe that's why I've only killed one elk...

Dober,

I freely admit to owning 5 .30-06's--but I also own 4 .300 magnums of various sorts, and have hunted quite a but with all four of the .300's they're chambered for: WSM, H&H, Wby. and Win.

Sort out my personality by that, psychologist of the rifled tube! (grins)

And while you are at it Mato,I sold my last .300 when I quit hunting elk, and gave my only '06 to my bride. My "big gun" is now the 7x57, and mostly I use .22 centerfires now. Freudian? Help me out here...
Ingwe

Dober,

I am 5' 10.5" tall and 25lbs overweight at 190--I have a light frame.

The leadership grid always puts me as a 9/9 and according to Myers Briggs I am an INTJ:

INTJs apply (often ruthlessly) the criterion "Does it work?" to everything from their own research efforts to the prevailing social norms. This in turn produces an unusual independence of mind, freeing the INTJ from the constraints of authority, convention, or sentiment for its own sake... INTJs are known as the "Systems Builders" of the types, perhaps in part because they possess the unusual trait combination of imagination and reliability. Whatever system an INTJ happens to be working on is for them the equivalent of a moral cause to an INFJ; both perfectionism and disregard for authority may come into play... Personal relationships, particularly romantic ones, can be the INTJ's Achilles heel... This happens in part because many INTJs do not readily grasp the social rituals... Perhaps the most fundamental problem, however, is that INTJs really want people to make sense.

My primary hunting rifles are all in the process of being sorted out since I was recently delivered from M-700ism. I am now afflicted with CRF M-70ism with an ocassional outbreak of pre '64ism. Here thay are:

1. 1957 Vintage M-70 FWT in 30-06. It will be my "fair weather" rifle for deer hunting. Desired load: 150 grain TTSX at 3000 fps.

2. M-70 SS Classic with Edge stock in 30-06. Primary deer/ black bear/hog; back-up for elk. This is my "lightweight" at 7 3/4 lbs scoped. Desired load: 168 TTSX at 2900 fps.

3. M-70 SS Classic in 300 Win, Bansner stock. Not sure where this rifle fits, maybe as a "long range" deer/elk rig? May not keep it if rifle #4 works out. Desired load: 200 grain NAB at 2950 fps.

4. M-70 Classic in 338 Win, Pacific Research stock. Elk rifle. If this rifle works out it will probably get a Bansner stock. Desired load: 210 TTSX at 3000 fps.

5. M-70 Classic, Cerakoted, McMillan stock in 416 Rem. This rifle will get used anytime I want to kill any big. Desired load: 350 TSX at 2600 fps.

I don't know if any correltations can be made between my body type/personality and my chambering choices, but have at it..............

Juuuuust outta some idle curiousity here.... If there is anyone here who has ever guided hunters professionally, which problem occurred the most frequently-Clients unable to kill game because they had a 30/06 that they would have been able to kill with a 300 Magnum, or clients unable to kill game because they couldn't shoot their magnums well?
Just askin', ya unnerstan...

Fred

That is not even in dispute, nor is the answer of a guide required. People who can't shoot are a much bigger problem that people who are undergunned.

However, if you can shoot, the "bigger" gun has the potential to perform better. Though you really have to go beyond 270 to 338 Mag on elk debates before the bigger gun's potential really starts to make a difference......like say a 270's ability to stop a cape buffalo or a 30-06's ability to stop an elephant vs that of a 416 or 458.

I have only been able to hunt Africa once a number of years ago and today my PH would be 76 years old. He grew up in Southern Rhodesia, worked for National Parks in his younger years before becoming a PH and in his life time had killed over 1500 elephants. He told me that one day he shot 23 elephants in 5 minutes half with a .458 and half with a 30-06 using a 220 grain solid. He said that if hit properly that there was no difference in killing power between the calibers.

If he felt that a would be elephant hunter was not able to shot his/her elephant gun to his satisfaction then he would replace it with his 30-06. His rational was that if the hunter using the 30-06 and was able to place the shot exactly where he had instructed then the hunter would have a kill. Verus, the hunter using a gun that they were afraid of and wounding the animal where as then he would have to kill it. This is what I was told. I love my 06.

That is why I said "stop" a cape buffalo or elephant. You can kill one with a sharp stick..............

The real problem is that some think it's a problem.

It's not problem at all, it's an advantage, it's a hedge.

IMO poor marksmanship is pervasive today and it doesnt have anything to do with the caliber one shoots. I have seen plenty of guys that couldnt hit the broad side of a barn with a 30-06 or a 30-30.
Why does viagra even enter this discussion?
One other thing. It seem popular for guys that shoot non magnums to bag on guys that shoot magnums, yet you dont typicaly see the opposite?
I could care less what another guy shoots. I use both magnums and standards, but I also am not under any illusion that my .270 puts em down like my 300 ultra does.

I don't think any reasonable person is putting down people that shoot magnums. What I DO see reasonable people railing against are the guys that think that a magnum is going to take the place of hunting ability, practice and good marksmanship.
Something I have seen a lot of, is the guy that buys a magnum, shoots a half box of shells at 100 yards a year, then thinks he is going to kill deer and elk and 600 yards. To shoot a magnum well requires a fair amount of practice. The higher cost and greater recoil of the magnums often cause people to shoot less, not more.

Royce

I dunno know about any of this

The first elk I saw shot was hit with a 30/06 and factory 150 Power Points at about 350 yards;first shot too far back,and the elk trotted off a bit,clearly ill.Second shot was through the ribs behind the foreleg and his knees buckled.Game over.

Elk looked big to me.So when I started elk hunting I built a 300 Win Mag,a 300 Weatherby and 300 H&H;also a pacel of 338's;shot them all a lot and settled on 180 gr bullets at 3100-3200.This killed elk and a bunch of other stuff.At the range(and out to 600 yards), I noticed all the 300's shot flatter than everything else except the 7 Rem Mag.

So I used them all!

They all worked;sometimes they killed faster than the 30/06's I saw used and sometimes they did not if the shots were poorly placed. But properly placed hits from the 300's at distances out to 450 yards or so brought elk down like dynamited smokestacks;but elk hit with 7mags and good bullets behaved the same way.Ditto some I saw killed with 270's.

I never saw enough difference between 338's 340's and 300's to make me a "Keithian",and the 338's went south.

Here's what I have noticed and it's worth what you paid for it:

1)Bullet construction and placement get equal footing with me,and trump caliber,because a great bullet from a 30/06 will do what a lousy bullet from a 300 Win Mag will not.

2)Within reason,you should shoot what you shoot well,and have confidence in.

3)Some practiced shooters do better with less recoil,and recoil tolerance varies a great deal between individuals(see #2 above).But I have noticed that many people who are bums with 300's tend to be bums with everything,and they rarely get better with lighter recoiling rifles because they are undisciplined,un-practiced,and cannot hit a bull in the ass with a bag of rice,regardless of caliber.

4)A GOOD rifleman does not need to worry much about what he is shooting,within reason.He will do well with about anything.We all have our cartridge preferences,but the guy behind the rifle is the most important ingredient in the mix.His skill sets will frequently trump rifle and cartridge,scope,etc. He will do good with about anything.

I'm going elk/moose/mule deer hunting this fall in BC.Have not yet decided but the choice is down to a 270 Winchester,a 7mmDakota,or a 30/06.All will be loaded with Swift Aframes or Bitterroots. I am not the least bit concerned about which one I take.


Blaine: I think you'll find the 338 is excess baggage.JMHO

Bob; Your short list just about covers it all, any time, any game, anywhere. It makes so much sense I doubt that anyone will pay heed!
It reminds me of an
"Appendix on Rifles and Shooting" in the back of one of W.D.M. Bell's books...insert modern boolits and in three pages it is literally all you ever need to know about shooting....
Your list is kinda the same...odd how we get pragmatic with age and experience...
Ingwe

Out of the 6 people that I hunt with, only 2 of us use magnums of 30 cal and over for Elk. That would be my brother shooting my old .338, and me shooting my old 300 saum, both of us shoot often, I reload. I have seen the other four kill elk with .270 win, 270 wsm, and 30-06. What I haven't seen is a major difference between all of these different cartridges in quickness of kill, some animals go down as if hit by lightning, some keep going for a bit. In my own head I can't shake the belief that a heavier bullet going faster isn't going to cause more damage and kill quicker. So I continue to use the magnums even if they are just the short mags, and continue to recommend the standard cartridges to my friends that aren't into putting the same energy into shooting as I.

My guns, and I shooting well are mostly a hobby of mine, beats the hell out of golf.

Ingwe: I dunno about the experience side of things,cause many here have more of that...but I definately have age going for me

I promise I will try to be less pragmatic in the future,in order to provide better Home Entertainment Value

Give me a 300 mag of some variety(I like the RUM) with a 200gr partition, please...

Bob, don't sell yourself short, youv'e got oodles of experience. As for the pragmatism, both you and I know how we got that way...we experimented with all these cartridge/ bullet/ velocity combos just like all these young guys are doing...
And ya gotta admit, we ( at least I...) was alot like them...I know what the books and the writers say about this or that cartridge, but maybe if I try it....
Ingwe

Bob has good stuff to contribute for sure.

As an aside, I think ol Hagel would have liked the 300 RUM and I think he really would have liked the spitzer 200gr partition(instead of that semi-spitzer they had back in his day.)

I think Hagel liked anything you could stuff a LOT of powder in...
I tried some of his loads and literally found it a physical impossibility to get that much powder in some of those cases!
Really enjoyed his book and his writing though, too bad hes gone from the party..
Ingwe

Now it's time to compare the 30-06 to the 270, another arguement of little substance but like the 30-06 vs. 300Win. if creates a lot of clammer....