Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Tikka T3 problem, maybe some of you guys can help?

Well, I'm getting kind of frustrated. Life was grand when I bought the T3 SS/Lam in .25-06, and it was shooting <1" with any ammo I fed it. Then I had to go and change things up since it was shooting so well I applied UBC, pillar-bedded the action, made sure the barrel is completely free floated, switched 3 different scopes onto the rifle (with individual scope rings for each), have shot the barrel clean and dirty, and have tried a variety of different ammo. The crown is good (perfectly symmetrical little star is visible at the muzzle). The scope bases and mounts are firm and tight, the screws are not bottoming out.

The rifle is giving completely erratic accuracy and velocity. I've gone out a few times to shoot it, 2 of which were on days when there was a 10mph wind coming from the 10:30 direction. The barrel has ranged from cold to rather warm, and the temperature outside has ranged from 40-65 degrees.

First, regarding the velocity, USING THE SAME LOAD, the rifle will shoot 3150 on one day, and then the next day it will average 3300fps. The chrony has transparent tape over the sensors (JB trick), and is placed 8 feet from the muzzle. Velocities are very consistent on any given day, but they switch between 3150 and 3300, depending on the day.

Now for accuracy. The rifle will shoot 3 shots into one hole, or at least well under 1", then it will shoot a bullet 2" away from that group, and another 2" in a different direction from the main group. One group of 5 shots was perfectly diagonal ranging from high and left, to almost in the bulls-eye. It's extremely weird. Some shots form a nice, tiny group, while others are wildly flung all over the place.

My idea bank is becoming seriously depleted, any ideas, thoughts, or suggestions?

Thanks!

1st off. Kick yourself for doing some many mods on an accurate rifle.

Now back to business. Look at runout of loaded rounds for accuracy issues. Velocity I'm not sure but can say you should have a 22LR or something to test the chrony each day.

"IF" all the work done is done properly it shouldn't be the rifle.

Done and done.


Here are some pics of the pillar bedding. The pillars are flush with the stock on the top side, and butt up against the metal on the floor plate on the bottom side. You can see that the recoil lugs from the action are sitting firmly against the pillars on the top side.

I don't do pillars but believe the pillars should almost be below flush against the action and then receive a skim bed. Why is the one hanging out on the bottom? If I am seeing what I think then that isn't good or I am missing something.

The pillars stick out the bottom because the floorplate mounting point is recessed into the FP. The pillar is about 0.001" away from contacting the FP, but it's not quite touching.

Jordan you said you completely free floated the barrel was there a point in the barrel channel toward the end of the stock were it pressed up against the barrel

With the Tikka system I am not convinced that your pillars are adding anything. The original bedding all sort of floats around and only becomes a solid unit when all the parts are fully compressed. The pillars may be preventing the recoil lug from seating completely into the stock and receiver.

I would try milling down the pillar and bedding and see if that restores the rifle. You will still receive the benefits of the pillar if they are a hair short. Make sure that there is plenty of room around the screws and that they are not acting as a recoil absorber...if there is any wall contact with the screws, open the pillars up, or tape them to center when you re-bed it. When you do, use more compound and bed the entire action and the recoil lug insert too...use release agent.

Eliminate any scope issues by just using one scope that is proven to hold a zero.

Also, you need to be at least 15' away from the Chrony for consistent readings, and make sure the Chrony is completely open and flat on the supporting surface and that you are shooting at a true 90 degrees. If it is not open completely your readings will be high, and if you are shooting at an angle, however slight, the readings will be low.

TC

No. One side of the stock near the receiver was touching the barrel. Definitely not the type of pressure point that is conducive to accuracy.

TopCat,
I thought that as well, until I used a compressible spacer underneath the aluminum block, and after tightening the action screws, I was able to see that the aluminum block is being fitted correctly between the action and the stock. The screws are not making contact with the inside of the pillars. I will most likely sand down the pillars to just below the surface of the stock so that the action does not make contact.

I tried 3 different scopes in order to eliminate the scope as the potential cause of the problem.

I will place the chrony farther away and report back.

Thanks for all the advice so far, keep it coming!

Tikka T3 problem?

Never heard of such a thing..........Oh, you futzed with it. That makes it your problem.

The bedding block in the tikka does not seem to work like a conventional system. I have heard of a few tikka that people bedded, with and without pillars, and lost the consistency and accuracy they had.

Its funny the most common advice on bedding most rifles is to tape the bottom of the lug so it is not compressed in the stock but the tikka almost seems to need that compression for consistency. Im not sure how you checked the fit with a compressible spacer but I would lean towards the block not fitting into the action properly.

I know its tempting to play with a shooter to get it even better but so far I have resisted efforts to screw with my T3s, a .223 and a .270 that are out of the box screamers.

Jordan - as you know, I've got 2 laminated T3's, the 270 and 300WSM's. I remember your "bottoming out" issue which caused you to pillar bed. At first read, I thought, what a great idea! And on many rifles, it is.

I have always tightened my stock bolts down pretty snug and could understand your reasoning for thinking that pillar bedding would solve the bottoming out problem. I'm thinking that the T3's, for whatever reason, were designed a certain way, for certain reasons. Perhaps it makes little sense to expect that pillar bedding wouldn't help the best shooters shoot even a bit better, but evidently, that and any other bedding compounds you've applied, have made it less than the shooter it was when stock. Actually, that's quite obvious given the shooter you said it once was. My 2 laminated T3's are some very accurate shooters as well......unmolested.

I'm no less apt to "tinker" as you did, but have learned only recently that toying with perfection oftentimes only causes me frustration down the road......generally speaking. I don't know if you can get 'er back to stock again by any method outside of purchasing another stock. And as I've written before, I believe that the laminated T3's are a thing of the past, less private sales or auction sites. And I've never seen just a T3 stock of any type for sale as I've tried to find a laminated stock to replace a synthetic on one of my other T3's.......no luck.

Were you shootin' these groups with the TTSX's I just sent you?

There's an old saying which goes like this: If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Had the same problem. Every once in awhile there is a T3 that won't shoot. My gunsmith took mine and made a bedding block like a normal rifle and the problem went away. You may not be getting full contact with the bedding block.

Nope, I was shooting bulk CL's. I'm saving the TTSX's for when I get this rifle sorted out.

Ok... it's good that you are checking out the possible problem areas.

The point I was making was that unlike other action types, the Tikka actually relies on compression of the 2 piece recoil system to stabilize the recoil lug.

On the other hand, pillars limit compression of the stock so that screw tension is stabilized, but considering that the area that you have bedded is not a recoil area in the Tikka system, limiting compression there will actually relieve pressure on the recoil lug.

The fundamental basis of action bedding is that the only important area of a stock to bed IS the recoil lug area, so in a sense, you have done the reverse.

While there is no guarantee that the bedding is causing your accuracy issues at this point, it is one likely suspect.

I'd bed the entire action, but overall, it would be a better strategy to bed the lug and and relieve the bedding under the screws to allow the action to float there so that the primary compression force is returned to the recoil lug itself.

TC

TC,

Thanks for the advice! Much appreciated!

If I am still having problems after shooting the rifle once more, I'll look into the UBC that I've got in the bore (and I'll speak with Doug), and I'll also bed the entire action.

The odd thing is that since pillar bedding the rifle, it shoots more accurately than it ever has before, but it also throws the odd shot or two WILDLY, which it never did before. I have put several shots into the same hole since I installed the pillars...

Dont sweat the UBC being the issue. I have 400 rounds through my .308 and it still punched a little over a half inch in a match the other day. My T3 in .270 is over 200 rounds of 110TTSX and did 1 1/4" at 200 with the load the last time out.

Well, I was out shooting today in a confirmed 17mph gusty wind. It was quite hard for me to hold steady in that kind of wind, and there are a couple of admitted and called fliers in there, but the bedding job I did about a week ago:




Led to these results today:






Thanks for all your help, guys, it was the bedding afterall!

Anyone know why I can't see the pictures that Jordan posted?

Hello Newb, did you notice the post is from 09, as in2009?