Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles Opinions on 7mm-08 rem vs. .275 Rigby ??

Can we hit 2,000 replies on this baby!

7x57 owners, chime in also

In a modern rifle, all else being equal, case capacity is king. The Rigby will prevail in velocity.

If we really want this to go to town we'll need to know if you are a communist [bleep]...like someone. Would also help if you say "load" frequently and demand it from another man.

No Commie here my friend and right you are on case capacity.

I had the pleasure of handling a 'Rigby mfg...Magazine Rifle' at a small gunshop back in college, never would have thought such a nice rifle would exist in that little town, but there were a few people in the know of rifles, and the $$$$$ to buy them apparently. This looked like back in the 80s a fairly recently made rifle, unbelievable wood and craftsmanship. I believe I recall some unique bluing of Old World process as the rear sight spring on a early Swede Mauser, a very DEEP blue.

TC1, any nice Rigby pics?

The 275 Rigby aka 7x57 aka 7mm Mauser aka Spanish Mauser has a bigger case capacity than the 7mm-08 and loaded to similar pressure levels, the 7-08 can not reach the performane levels of the 7x57 et al, especially with the heavier bullets. It's only advantage, and I use that term loosely , is the action length which may shave a few grams of a rifles weight, and I wont make comment on those who would struggle with the extra weight.The 3 thou taper in the neck can be a consideration and for the inexperienced handloader the 7-08 is probably a better proposition if better than average accuracy is being sought. I have just begun to explore past where most 7x57 users stop. Have managed to get brass with a neck wall thickness of .017 (after turning) and a snug chamber for 3 1/2 thou release clearance at the mouth of the case. Prep of brass was to turn then expand necks with a .289 instead of a .282 button then neck size only the first 1/4 in of the case mouth for 2thou tension. This gave me a touch fit of the case neck in the chamber of the 3thou tapered neck of the 7x57. Fire forming this way has given me STRAIGHT brass and accuracy is outstanding. For hunting I get 160gn Woodleigh at 2700fps and .5 for 3 shots. Am still working on a 168gn VLD but so far have .7 so have a way to go and other bullets to try yet. For what its worth I think the 7x57 is a better cartridge than the 7-08 will ever be. Von Gruff

No, the .275 Rigby was a borrowed (stolen) idea. I've always thought it was a little pretentious to stamp it on anything but a Rigby original. All my rifles wear the original name. 7X57 or 7mm Mauser.

Terry

Call it whatever you want, but the 7x51 is not nearly as classy as the 275 Rigby no matter how you package it.

Jeff

VonGruff, nice hearing from New Zealand. I don't mind long action as far as weight....but I do like the shorter throw in a shorter action. It is a catch 22, as the short action challenges bullet seating depth in certain caliber/bullet combos, your 1602700 surely is a big killer.

I have used 7/08s, 260s, and 6.5x55, a preference toward the classic Swede (albeit a small one) and in my single shot Ruger, action length is a non-issue. Long action Rem 700s for example come close to my eye when keeping my face down during cycling, a short action not so much.

I do have an itch for a 7x57 or Rigby someday, just because I never fooled with one. Having owned 7/08s in the past, for many years, I do recognize the 7mm Mauser having more potential in a strong action with good loads, vs. a 7/08.

I admit starting this thread in jest as to the 7/08 vs. 308 thread, but regardless, this round - the 7x57 does indeed deserve more attention and popularity, in the US.

With loads to it's potential, it's sort of comical the late great Jack O'Connor pushed the 270 WCF so hard, when the 7x57 was knocking on it's heels. IIRC, he and/or his wife Eleanor used the 57 a good bit around the globe, w/o any complaints.

TC1, I can appreciate your comment. As well as any pics you may have of any 7x57s! You always have nice things to show.

Anyone wanting to share their experiences with the Rigby/7x57 chime in. Alot of history in this classic.

Just as Peanut Butter/Jelly is to bread, heavy bullets are to this round. However, I'd be curious as to accuracy with 7x57s loaded with newer bullets like the 120 ballistic tip/vmax and the 140 accubonds.....that would put it in perspective to the loads many use in 7/08s. I am sure if seated close to/into lands in a like rifle, accuracy rivals it's modern Short Action brethren.

It seems the throating varies a good deal in this round, I believe older model Rugers for example had longer throats than the latest ones.....or am I mistaken? Perhaps twist rates vary as well, often faster than many of today's 9-9.5" twisted 7s.

I have seen more than one 7x57 succesfully packaged into a short action. With Barnes 120 - 140gr bullets they fit just fine and will do about anything one needs to do with such a rifle. A much better cartridge, IMHO. Giving points not just for case capacity but also for style ,history, class, panache and other intangibles that make hunting more pleasurable for me when armed with such.

It is not only the heavier bullets that make the 7x57 shine although they are what made its reputation. The GS custom High Velocity bullets from South Africa are a great addition to the bullet spectrum. They let the 7x57 push a 117gn to 3150, a 120 to 3100 and a 130 to 3000.� The web site is great reading and this bullet reduces the meat damage by its design. The rifle I just finished is an English styled stalking rifle and if someone wants to post a couple if pics I will email to them. Tried to work through site posting but it is too complicated for me. Anyway it has a bolt mounted aperture with qd bases for scope when necessary, or the bench, as it is quite respectable on paper. Typical short forearm with ebony tip. NECG bb swivel and front sight band. I made a surrounded base for the rear swivel, and my design of skeleton cut steel butt plate and grip cap. Nice bit of mid range New Zealand walnut and hand rubbed Tung oil finish. No checkering as I use this rifle and I have seen too many checkering pannels damaged. Not spectacular like some of the custom makers turn out but I am pleased with it, and it has been in the mountains after fallow where it snowed and rained. It is a using rifle.

Von Gruff.

I guess for sentimental reasons, I'd pick the 7x57 any day. I have a nice 7x57 that I'll probably never part with.

Practically speaking, especially for a bolt action, I'd choose the 7mm-08 or the 280 Remington, not the 7x57. It seems the 7x57 doesn't offer enough over the 7mm-08 to matter in the field. Secondly, if I'm going to have a long action cartridge, I'll pick a cartridge that fills up the action.

I bet the same guys who say the 7x57 is better than the 7mm-08 due to case capacity will try and tell me that the different between the 7x57 and 280 Remington are too little to argue about Someone said 7x57 is mobetta than 7x51. I'll say that 7x63 is mobetta than 7x57.

I'd say there isn't 10 cents difference in the performance out in the field of all four. Of the ones mentioned I like the 7X57 best. With it's tappered case it's a natural feeder and fits in a long action rather nicely.

The 7X57 has been all over the would and has killed everything from rats to elephants. It has nothing else to prove.

65BR, THANK YOU for not taking offence to my comments last night! I get grumpy at bed time

Here's a few pics for you.

Here is one of my 7X57's. It's a BRNO 21H with a 24" barrel. When I bought this rifle it was a basket case. The bolt handle had been replaced (nice job though) and the stock had been refinished several times by somebody that didn't know what they were doing. All the corners were rounded and the toe was broke off the stock. I did what I could with it and and after realizing it wasn't ever going to be "right" again I decided to have some fun with it and broke out the blood read stain and Bone black. I sent a few pieces to Turnbull Restoration for color case hardening and this is what I ended up with.





This rifle is extremely accurate and weighs about 6 1/2 lbs pounds before optics. Back in it's day it would have been considered an ultra lite.

After hunting it a few years an oppertunity came up to have Paul Dressel build a stock for me. Pauls stock styles are unusual to say the least and I've always been drawn to them. The only problem was I didn't have any metal ready to go. Well, my stock work was sarificed to to have some metal for Paul to work with. A few things were changed on the metal and while it still wears the factory barrel I call it a full blown custom. Paul made the comment while working on the rifle he had never shot a more accurate 7X57 in his life. You don't go pull a tube like that off while it still has life in it.



[img]http://photos.imageevent.com/lucky/boneblack/websize/new%20brno%20033.JPG[/img]
[img]http://photos.imageevent.com/lucky/boneblack/websize/BRNO%20last%20swan%20song%20063.JPG[/img]

I've got a couple more and a work in progress too. I'll post them a little later.

Terry

I read an interesting article last week where the writer said," if there has ever been a cartridge that was deserving of being called a true "10" its the 7x57" It was really the first true centerfire rifle round that got this whole big BALL a rollin,Just go ask Teddy Roosevelt as him and the ruffriders did not have good experiences with the ol 7X57 up on San Juan Hill as a matter of fact it was that episode of history that sent america back to the drawing board to produce what we now know as the 30-06,another rifleman over in africa shot and killed many elephants with the the ol 7X57,I find it kind of amazing that for the cartridge that started it all they are still makin rifles and ammo for it yet today and everywhere I look the ol 7X57 still has a very loyal fan base me included and Ive often wondered where the scheme of things might be in the world of cartridges if the ol 7X57 had never been introduced in to the world,no doubt about it the ol 7X57 gets my "10" vote.......

Things that make a cartridge a "stand-out" include good killing power through adequate penetration ( i.e., high sectional density), flat-shooting (i.e., a high ballistic coefficient) and a reputation for having a relatively mild recoil.

With a wide range of bullet weights, the 7x57 Mauser (aka "7mm Mauser" or ".275 Rigby") stands out in all three areas. Therefore, it's not at all difficult to understand why the oldest "modern" cartridge, the 7x57mm Mauser cartridge maintains it's high popularity.

Greatly UNDER-loaded by many commercial loading companies due to the continuing use of the cartridge in older, weaker 1893 and 1895 Mausers in many 3rd. world countries. However, loaded to it's full capability and used in "modern rifles", the 7x57mm Mauser is a truly "efficient" cartridge that will out-perform many (if not "all") modern cartridges including the 7mm-08 which uses the .308 case necked down to .284 (7mm).

A popular bullet-maker began showing "7x57 loads for MODERN RIFLES ONLY" a few years ago which are close to 10% greater than the former "maximum loads". These loads yield 50,000 CUP compared to a previous high pressure of just 46,000 CUP.

I use one of their loads (50.0 grains of H4350 behind a 150 grain bullet) in my Ruger #1 International (aka "RSI") with the full Mannlicher stock and the Kipplinger single set trigger I had my gunsmith install it this classic rifle/classic cartridge combination. This maximum load shoots fairly accurately (3 shot group of .404 inches at 50 yards) although both recoil from the 36-inch-long rifle and muzzle blast from the RSI's 20-inch barrel are noticably higher than somewhat lighter loads. This load would be "over-kill" for whitetail deer, but would make even a 300 yard shot a "reasonable" shot.

Unfortunately, since I've never shot a 7mm-08, my opinion of a comparison of the two cartridges wouldn't be very valid since I can only judge the two cartridges by comparing their "paper performance".


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.

Oh yes I kinda got lost in the heat of the moment of the 7X57 and forgot where I was,I also am a shooter of the 7X51 or 7mm-08 which also holds a very dear place in my heart and when this cartridge arrived upon the sceen back in 1980 I had an instantanious luv afair about overnight and I went and got dies and brass long before I ever had a rifle but I just knew it was coming and the lil 7mms are a tuff team to beat whether it be 7mm-08 or 7X57 but on this day Ill choose the 7X57.........

In factory persuasion they are about equal in trajectory and killing power..In handloaded ammo the 275 Rigby/7x57 will leave the 7-08 and 260 sucking hind tit!

In a Brno Model 21 or 22 as pictured above in TCI's post you have a long throat and a long 30-06 length magazine and you can seat the 175 gr. bullet to about half way to the cannalure. Looks like a pencil sticking out there and with H414 powder you can churn up a safe 2700 FPS with the 175 gr. bullet, and a 160 gr. bullet will give you 2916 FPS..Right up there with the 30-06 and the wonderful 150 and 180 gr. bullets.

I have all my custom 7x57s throated this way and have long magazines in them the same as the Brnos...It only seems to work with H414 powder and perhaps WW760 but I have not tried WW760 but it has the same burning rate. You can load way beyond book max in a modern firearm or a good Mauser.

Those Brno Mod 21 and 22s are the absolute finest factory production rifle to ever come out and they give any full blown custom rifle a run for the money..Great guns.

here's my version of that, built about thirty years ago for my father by Champlin on a Mark X mauser action. I had a 7-08 for a long time and killed a few deer with it but never really cottoned to the round.....that rifle is now with Mickey becoming a 7.62 NATO sniper designated marksman rifle.

Steve, I was JUST remembering that Mark X 7x57 a friend offered in new condition years back, for $200, and I passed, the lack of experience/knowledge.......another lost opportunity as many others do to lack of $$$ or knowledge/wisdom.

Von, those GS bullets are impressive, saved the website on my favorites long ago. Like to try some in the future, I think Ray used/suggested their 75gr or so 6mm for small rounds like his 6x45 in lieu of the discontinued 75x bullet.

TC1, NICE stuff, loved the old Butterknife bolts but your newer one is likely more functional save if needed to slide in a scabbard.

Ray, those loads rival my first CF rifle, a 700 ADL w/original factory SS bbl coated with black iron oxide. Loaded down 160 Sierra BTSP at 2860, easy on the shoulder, nickel sized groups, and deadly on game.

Terry recognized that 4x S&B in the first pics, but not the other scope.....looks top notch, my guess, an older but fine Euro optic as well?

Still hankering to own/enjoy a good 7x57 in my future, as a nice 250/3000, both never tried. Jim Carmichael's shortened Mauser in 250/3k got my attention in a photo in a gun mag a few years back. Recall long ago in college, a gent at the range, a preacher of all things, one who loved fine rifles and seemed to love topping them with Swaro Glass, had a Classic 700 in 7x57 and told me his loads were 3,000 mv with 140 ballistic tips. Hot? Likely. Perhaps safe for him, I shot 708s at 2900-2960 in 21" bbls, and they were fine, but brass life would be better a grain or so less....point is, I was stunned back in the late 80s hearing an 'ancient 7x57' getting those speeds. As someone said, no 'proving' needed, been there done that, the 57.

Ron, read about your rifle on the Singleshot forum, it's a keeper Sold my 243 RSI before installing a Kepplinger....knowing how nice they are I guess I was afraid of permanently collecting another rifle! My 6mm BR custom shot sub half inch, at 330 yds for three shots one morning, thanks in part to that fine Austrian trigger.

Enjoyed everyone's post, thanks all for nice reads.

ouch....bet that left a mark

65BR, the scope is a Zeiss/Jena 6X. They were purpose built for the BRNO ZKK line of rifles. IMO, it's as nice as most scopes sold today.

Here's a teaser for you. It's a 1910 Mexican smallring M98 in 7X57. The action is purpose built for that cartdrige. The metal work was done by Mark Stratton and the stock work is being done by Chic Worthing. It should be finished anyday now. I'll get some better pictures when I receiver the rifle.





I've got a little 30mm Leica 1.5-6X33 scope waiting to go on it. It's going to be a sharp little rifle when finished!

Terry

Suppose you paid a little more than a couple hundred for the stock blank as well! That is about as nice a piece of wood as I have see anywhere and will make a beautiful little rifle.