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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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John,
I am at a loss as to how someone can write an entire aticle about the 30-06 and never once utter the words "core-lokt".
TRUMP- GABBARD 2024
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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That was a good article by John on the 30/06.To be honest it never occured to me to use the Fed215 primer with any 4350 in the 30/06 loads with the 165's; something I do with the 270Winchester. Question for John: You don't mention using the 215 with H4350,but you do with IMR4350. I use exacly the same load with 165's,ie 59-H4350-165 Sierra's and Partitions.Do you recommend the Fed215 with H4350 as well? The article is making me feel guilty that I don't use the 06 as much as the 270 
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Joined: May 2008
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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John
I'm a big .30-06 fan also, and the .308 is next. With the recent component avaialbility shortages, I have tried to choose powders that work for several applications. I have settled on RL-15 and RL-22, and IMR 4064 (had some from awhile back). Loads are pretty much straight out of Nosler #s 5 and 6. I am curious about the 'normal' vs. cold temp performance. I live and hunt (mostly) in Colorado, sometimes above 11,000'.
Thanks for any comment you have.
Stets newcomb
"Freedom is the sure possession of those who have the courage to defend it" - Pericles
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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To all,
I read JB's 30-06 article and when Ramshot powders were suggested I was reminded that I have ignored new powders pretty much after a round with ball powders long ago.
Perhaps the new Ramshot (formerly Accurate?) powders are 'modern' and magnum primers are the way to go?
I looked just now and of the larger containers I have an 8# IMR 4064, 5# RL15 and a 5# RL22. I feel too old to change. Think I will go for a walk soon instead.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Bob,
I used the F215 primer when pressure-testing the IMR4350/165 load to make sure pressures would be at their highest. This means that the load would obviously be safe with standard primers.
I don't necessarily recommend F215's for such loads, but have used them quite a bit over the years and find they work very well in cases like the .270 and .30-06 with slower-burning powders.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Stets,
Reloder 15 is the most cold-resistant of the powders you list.
I have seen Reloder 22 and IMR4064 lose 150 fps from 70 degres to zero. The loss of velocity doesn't matter as much as possible point of impact changes. I have seen such loads change 100-yard POI 2-3" from 70 to zero--and it can be in any direction, not just up and down.
This is the main reason I tend to use cold-resistant powders when hunting here in Montana, or anyplace else it might get cold. Big Game, Hunter, H4350 and H4831 are all very good in cold weather.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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JB,
Would you use that 185 VLD load on elk?
btw, I enjoyed the article.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Savage 99,
Ramshot Powders are not the Accurate Powders. The parent company is Western Powders of Miles City, Montana, which started importing the Ramshot line from Belgium in 2000. A few years later Western bought the Accurate line.
The Ramshot rifle powders are modern ball powders that are much less temperature-sensitive and also cleaner-burning than traditional ball powders. All ball powders tend to work better with magnum primers, because to a large extent their burn rate is controlled by "deterrents" on the outside of the granules, which by their very definition don't start burning very easily.
I've found the Ramshot line to be very useful, and in fact they're some of the first powders I reach for anymore when working up new rifle loads.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Ringworm,
I decided to respond to your post last because I needed more time to think about it.
I don't think .30-06 and "Core-Lokt" are inseparable any more than .30-06 and "venerable." I have killed a lot of animals with Core-Lokt factory ammo in the .30-06 but these days don't find any magic in the Core-Lokt spitzers.
The jackets were thinned in the spitzers about 20 years ago to make manufacturing easier, so they are no better (or worse) than any other non-bonded cup-and-core bullet such as the Winchester Power Point or whatever Federal calls their standard bullet these days. I get pretty much identical decent results with all three so lump them together into the "factory ammo" mentioned in the last part of the article.
The 180 RN Core-Lokt still has the heavy jacket sidewalls of the original. Or at least the last one I sectioned did. But I don't know many people who handloaded RN bullets in the .30-06 anymore so didn't mention them.
In general when handloading cup-and-core bullets at moderate muzzle velocities I tend to reach for Sierras first, because they shoot really well, are often cheaper and more available than anything else, and really do a number on game. The 180 GameKing is pretty much my standard 180 cup-and-core when loading the .30-06--and a lot of other .30-caliber cartridges. But I have also loaded and hunted with more than a few Speer Hot-Cors and Hornady Interlocks in the .30-06.
If you feel somehow slighted because of the lack of Core-Lokts in the article then you are certainly welcome to insert them anywhere you like. Or to write your own .30-06/Core-Lokt article.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Thanks, John. I'll stick to the WWLR Standard primers with H4350.
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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I'd LUV to handload some 180 RN Core-Lokt's in my 17 3/4" bbl(by default).30-06 but,darn it,Remington don't offer them as components.
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Great article, I enjoyed the read. I agree with the statement below. Let me start by saying that if you have been loading your .30-06 with IMR4350 and any bullet weight from 150 to 220 grains for many years, then you might as well go ahead and keep using the same load. That powder still works for anything worth doing with a .30-06. What follows is for rifle loonies only. I however prefer the H4350 in my rifles but feel the same way. I have not found a 30-06 that did not like a 165gr bullet pushed by 57gr of H4350 nor did I find any NA game animal that did not fail to die from one.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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SU35,
The biggest animal I've taken with the 185 VLD load was a big red stag weighing about 400 pounds, about the size of an average cow elk. It worked very well on a broadside shot, essentially turning the heart inside out and killing VERY quickly.
But as I wrote in my first article about VLD's, I think that is kind of pushing the envelope. I'd sure use them on meat elk, but for hunting mature bulls I'd use something a little stouter.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 580
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Campfire Regular
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Mule Deer,
Since Federal primers are impossible to find what do you think of the CCI magnum rifle primers? What about CCI benchrest primers?
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Apr 2006
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John
This article couldn't have come at a better time. I am planning on loading for my new pre64 30-06 and was hoping to use Ramshot powders since they are the easiest to get here. There is not a lot of info on this brand in the manuals so this really helps.
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John,
Thanks for the great article. When you are loading standard cup and core bullets in 30-06 for your hunting, do you tend to favor the 165gr or 180gr weight?
Stan
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 18,158
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Ringworm,
I decided to respond to your post last because I needed more time to think about it.
I don't think .30-06 and "Core-Lokt" are inseparable any more than .30-06 and "venerable." I have killed a lot of animals with Core-Lokt factory ammo in the .30-06 but these days don't find any magic in the Core-Lokt spitzers.
The jackets were thinned in the spitzers about 20 years ago to make manufacturing easier, so they are no better (or worse) than any other non-bonded cup-and-core bullet such as the Winchester Power Point or whatever Federal calls their standard bullet these days. I get pretty much identical decent results with all three so lump them together into the "factory ammo" mentioned in the last part of the article.
The 180 RN Core-Lokt still has the heavy jacket sidewalls of the original. Or at least the last one I sectioned did. But I don't know many people who handloaded RN bullets in the .30-06 anymore so didn't mention them.
In general when handloading cup-and-core bullets at moderate muzzle velocities I tend to reach for Sierras first, because they shoot really well, are often cheaper and more available than anything else, and really do a number on game. The 180 GameKing is pretty much my standard 180 cup-and-core when loading the .30-06--and a lot of other .30-caliber cartridges. But I have also loaded and hunted with more than a few Speer Hot-Cors and Hornady Interlocks in the .30-06.
If you feel somehow slighted because of the lack of Core-Lokts in the article then you are certainly welcome to insert them anywhere you like. Or to write your own .30-06/Core-Lokt article.
i seem to remember a very detailed test conducted by someone at rifle shooter were he, if im correct... shot 30+ different types of 30 caliber 180 grain bullets at 100 FPS increments from 1800-3200 FPS impact velocity. he shot 3 of each bullet and weighed each. the chart he built showed each bullet fired at each velocity , the average retained weight and the average depth of penetration in wet newsprint. It seems to be my best recolection that the 180 grain core-lokt bullet expanded in a broader window, if that could be the right description, of low to high velocitys. many of the premiums tested perfomed great in a narrow velocity window, over expanding if moving to fast and not expanding at all if too slow. while i dont think the 30-06 and the remington core-lokt are joined at the hip, i do think any article about the 30-06 that mentions 180 grain bullet weights is remiss if not mentioning the bullet that has probably been used for a longer time and by more hunters than the rest combined. but... thats just my opinion. i wish i could find the article. i had it saved once but lost it in a hard drive crash. im sure someone can remember it.
TRUMP- GABBARD 2024
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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ringworm,
I have the chart of the bullet test you are talking about on the wall of one of my gun rooms. The Core-Lokt that had such a great velocity range of expansion was the 180 round-nose. The spitzer acted much like any other cup-and-core.
Since Remington doesn't sell the 180 RN for handloading there was no reason to include it in my essay. It is a great bullet but not the best for shooting beyond 300 yards.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,063
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Mississippi,
CCI makes fine primers. I use all of them a lot.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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