Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Yep to hell with the working class.

You can think all you want,..but the decisions will continue to be made for the people until they're ready to do more than think.

not to become overly argumentative, but how do we get folks to think? i mean, the earth is overrun with rich & poor humans, depending upon their address?

how better to feed 7 billion folks than the approach we're taking? lot's die of starvation, but lots drive chrome plated SUV's. is that a measure of competitiveness?

heh, i'm trying to understand where the readership is, and is coming from?? is it a fortress America answer, or is it a free-trade answer?

just tell me, straight up.

Charlie I don't know what you do, but if your work involves anything more complex than "do you want fries with that" you are obviously over your head...jorge

A free enterprise system without the chains of government or central bank manipulations and interference. Kind of like our founders set up with the Constitution.

Watch this video and it will give you a good answer.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWsx1X8PV_A

Tell me Jorge, how many teachers do you know that have lost a finger or worse on the job? How many teachers have Bilateral Carpal Tunnel to the extent that they loose the sense of feeling in their hands for weeks on end? How many suffer from higher incidents of cancer due to exposure to industrial chemicals? How many have blown disc in their back, or can't turn their head do to neck/spinal issues? How many spend their day minutes from a potentially fatal industrial accident, or have been killed while on the job?

Ever think for a moment there's a reason for the pay and compensation that semi-skilled employees recieve?

You missed the part about 'revolution and 'not ideal'. This is not about hurting feelings. This is about preventing revolution or armed insurrection, specifically prevent a communist type revolution like occurred in Russia where a huge percentage of the population lived in abject squalor. You'd be crazy to thing that if you ended welfare and other social programs that the people losing those benefits wouldn't react. There aren't enough jobs to employ those not on public assistance.

If you think public assistance is expensive, imagine civil war.

Of course it's not ideal, but do you have a workable alternative?

How are you going to compete with China on wages? The average Chinese worker earns $824 per year (about $0.40 per hour).

No offense, but physical "risks" really have nothing to do with it and or indigenous to the lowest paying jobs. Teachers don't receive more pay simply because they come from two types of people, those that would do it for because they have a "calling", and educated idiots that can't make it in the real world.

couldn't the same be said about most professions Pat?


there are those that are called by some higher purpose to do what they do, and ime it is a joy to observe them.

and there are those that choose their vocation for the wrong reasons and muddle about it sometimes with only ineptness and sometimes causing damage.


ballplayers are different imo, they're much like actors and musicians, it's entertainment, not needed by society but always highly valued. My reading leads me to believe for someone not born to royalty the court jester had a pretty good life compared to his peers.

talent is distributed a lot more widely than most people believe imo&e, I think there are far more talented actors and musicians that will never make even a viable living. but the creme de le creme make sums of money that are as good as winning the lottery for the average citizen.

in the arts, it's often the breaks you get, and our country's fascination with celebrity.

personally I think I'd enjoy more movies if they didn't use such big names over and over and over again.

at least with ball players their performance is measured objectively by competition with others striving for the same goal.

but that's about the only difference that I can see, if you make it in the top 5-10% of most any profession you'll do extremely well financially. but most vocations allow the next 60-80% to make a living, not so much with entertainers, be they athletes or actors.

Did not miss the part about revolution. Revolution is needed on the other side, however, it seems as though Americans in general have became adapt at being excuse bearing nut sack licking socialists themselves. The Americans I am speaking of are the ones that are not happy with the system but continue to go along because they have their cars and boats, their entertainment centers and have accepted the fact that paying for the weak is what it takes to get by. Keep on licking the hand that feeds you.

True revolution takes dedication and the acceptance of loss. In my opinion the pathetic that we are discussing here do not have the fortitude or self constitution to mount a revolution. They may present a short term nuisance, nothing more as they starve to death.

Lick the lollypop of mediocrity once and you will suck forever.

I don't agree. There is no shortage of jobs that will afford the lifestyle of many of our parents. The problem is that lifestyle isn't acceptable any longer. Compare what you spend your money on compared to what your parents did. I'm as guilty as the next guy.

Well those are good points, and here is another.


Most around here believe that everyone needs to get some sort an education to be successful, those who don't are too lazy or lack the drive, but then how does this jive with the guy who gets up at 5:00AM and does physically tough work all day long, and comes home beat like a rented mule? The guy certainly isn't lazy or neither does he lack drive, school, even trade school is just not in his make-up.

It used to be that a guy who was responsible and showed up to work everyday and worked his ass off was rewarded with a decent living, (our fathers were rewarded) now these same people are looked upon as dumb asses who get what they deserve. What do they deserve? The goal would be to compare and pay these people with third world wages, becasue after all, that is all they are worth.

Delivery drivers used to make decent livings, now only the union delivery people make decent livings, so that being said, the union delivery people are now the problem, and I don't get how so many ever bought into that.

Good post.

Compensation is never about minor risks. Compensation in a true capitalistic society is about the number of people who can do a specific job. Any moron can do assembly line work, minor risks are irrelevant. Put out an ad for an average UAW job at $XX,xxx and you'll get qualified respondents around the corner. Put out an ad for teachers and the line will be half as long. Put out an ad for Doctors and the line will be 1/50th as long.

Compensation is about the market. If you have a bunch of people willing to take minor risks because they don't have a skill set in demand, there is no reason to pay them as much as a "no risk" job, where the supply of qualified individuals is limited.

It's as if the laws of economics stop at the border of rust belt states. The Kool Aid makes people so drunk believing the propaganda of the Unions, they can't even understand Economics 101.

You simply can't. That's just the way capitalism and free markets go. The US has moved into the technical sector and beyond and nobody can't compete with us in that regard. Many folks in heavy industry had the presence of mind to see the light and retrain and go on to other things. It is NOT the government's job to create artificial pay scales just to placate. Look what happened to the textile & shoe industries. Labor, taxes, regulations and litigation drove them out. You CAN mitigate however by cutting capital gains taxes (we have the second highest in the world), and Tort reform. On the capital gains issue, it can work, as evidenced by Newport News Shipbuilding. The problem is some folks think everyone in the US rates the same standard of living regardless of what they do and it just doesn't work that way. jorge

Wrong.

It's just a matter of time.

I have no problem with folks getting Hazardous duty pay, none at all. The issue I have is one of proportion and I used the teacher analogy just to illustrate how some folks are underpaid. You mentioned the janitor issue at GM. How many years did they go by having to pay huge salaries to them? Sure they pay contractors now after the fact, but if by choice or circumstance you work on an assembly line or as a janitor, there's now way you can justify making the same amount of money as say a doctor, lawyer, professionals in general. And if you don't like it, go do something else. I DID. I was an infantry grunt, then ON MY OWN obtained a scholarship and went to school.

Everyone has and thinks they deserve Johnny Walker Black Label tastes on a Red Label pocket. jorge

And just what the hell is wrong with Infantry Grunts Jorge?

Of course you are wrong (again). As of today, NOW, the US lead in technology, computers, etc, is light years ahead of the rest of the world. For now, I am 100% spot on. jorge

No flight pay... jorge

The working class is serving a new type of robber Barron....Wall Street, namingly Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan.

IMO Goldman Sachs is the king maker behind the king(s)....

Want to know what is really going on? Google up Rolling Stone's Matt Taibbi article on Goldman Sachs. That is everything you need to know as to who is really running the country and pushing the buttons. It is not a short read, but an education on the real power in Washington.

BTW, the button pushers aren't necessarily the visible front men at Goldman........

Link To Rolling Stone Article on Goldman Sachs.....

Tony