Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles Ball vs. stick powder? What's the difference?

Well now I have been a reloader for all of maybe 1 week. I have fired sixteen rounds of .30-06 with the Reloder 19 propellant, a stick powder. I now also have some Winchester 748 to try, a ball powder. They look totally different, Re-19 comes in big old chunks like pencil lead, 748 is little round pellets...but they can both send a bullet down the barrel.

I'm a gearhead...I like to learn the minutiae of my hobbies and how each component works. I'm told that ball powders tend to burn less consistently...note the Hodgdon "Extreme" line of stick powders that may meter less easily but are supposed to be the best for consistent performance in extreme conditions.

I had an interesting performance at the range last Sat. morning. It was maybe 10:30 am when I started, already pretty hot in the 90s. I find the '06 challenging to shoot under the best conditions, let alone a Texas summer day. I had 2 Partitions land right beside each other, propelled by 58.5 grains of Re-19...then pulled the third shot low. Son of a b*tch! My last group, 59 grains/150 NPT, went into a 1.25" triangle. I'm excited about what this powder can do, but is it really better than a ball powder for extreme temperatures and uniform performance?

"Ball vs. stick powder? What's the difference?"

Ball powder is in little spheres. Stick powder looks like small sections of black spagetti. Other than than, for accuracy, we can't say much without testing it.

Ball powder is assumed to burn a bit cooler, extending barrel life a little. It's a bit harder to ignite so mag primers are in order.

Hogedon's "extreme" powders seem to be less sensitive to ambient temps than most others.

No powder burns "consistantly" if it's not loaded into its normal operating pressure range. Stick powder seems to have a wider pressure range for good function.

Stick powders will wear out a barrel faster than ball powders which tend to burn cooler, if such an oxymoron can be stated.

This is especially true when the stick powders are slower buring than IMR 4350.

JW

R19 is a very good powder. I use it quite often in a few cartridges. It is not known to be very consistant though in wide temp ranges.
The Hodgdon "Extreem" powders are not as claimed either. They may remain quite stable over a set range of temps, say 10F - 65F but then show changes at temps outside of that. Most all powders (in my very limited experiance)react to heat when it gets 80-90F + and do better in cooler temps.

For my 22-250, I have a load using Varget and two using H380. I started load development with H380 in the cooler months. I got very consistent groups all sub MOA. When the temps started to rise in the summer to over 100 degrees, I found the groups started to open up and the bolt got a little sticky. I went back to the bench and came up with another load. I don't have the number off the top of my head but it is below the recommended starting load from Hodgdon's. As such I called Hodgdon's to ask if this was normal for this powder. They recommended I go with Varget. I found one load using Varget that works in 50 degree's to 100+ degree's.

Here's the thing though, I still love H380 and will continue to use it. I am just better aware of its limitations.

Ball powders are double base, whereas stick can be single or double base. The RL series/Norma powders are double, as are the VV N-500series powders. Double base powders of the correct burn rate usually give more velocity, and they are claimed to give better barrel life. They meter like sugar, so if you load a high volume of shells, that can be important.

I have never gotten the best accuracy from ball powders, but that is probably due to my reloading technique and not the powders fault. Seating depth or wrong powder, light neck tension, or something else.

The 2 best ball powders I have used in the .223 are AA2230 and AA2520. Both have given decent accuracy, and if heavy bullets are your thing, 2520 is pure rocket fuel.

Most people that have a problem with ball powders give examples of temp sensitivity, but stick has the same problem. People develop loads in the spring, and then shoot them in the summer and pierce primers and get sticky extraction. Stick will do the same thing. Just check your loads with a chronograph and on target when its hot out. The same powders will usually shoot well, just a different charge.

The burn rate of ball powders isnt controlled by its composition, but by the amount of coating applied to it,(to an extent). That is why its important to start load development over when you switch to a new lot of powder. Some are reasonably stable, and some are all over the map.

Even though I havent had the best luck with them, ball powders work for alot of shooters, and I guess thats why I still try to find the key that will make them work for me.

Other differences are that ball powders are almost always more dense. That means that a given weight will take up less room, making ball powders ideal for limited-capacity cartridges. Stick or extruded powders will "pack" less efficiently, depending mostly on kernel size and shape.

For the 30-06, RL-19 is about the ideal burn rate, being very close to IMR4350. A ball powder very close to that rate id W760. Your W748 is a bit fast for most bullet weights in the 30-06, but would be ideal for the 308, 223 and other medium to small rounds.

Other than large magnum cases, I find myself using ball powders more and more. In .358 Win, for example, W-748 and Ramshot TAC work very well for me. In .223, I use mostly ball powders unless it is a summer prairie dog shoot - then I go to H-322.

Temperature insentive powders show less velocity loss, sometimes alot less, when the temperatures get really cold, like down to zero or below. But all of them show an increase in pressure when it gets over 77 degrees. I always test for pressure signs, or excess velocity, when it's hot for that reason.
The Ramshot line of ball powders are temp insenssitive, most of them are pretty good in this respect, but some are apparently better than others.
Some of the older ball powders are pretty dirty. The Ramshot line apparently is not.
With standard cases, I find that either Federal or Winchester standard primers work fine with ball powders.
Accuracy is just as good with one as it is with the other as a rule.
They don't always meter perfectly. I check my ball powder loads and occasionally find one that is off. But not often.
If you have a 30'06 that shoots 150 gr. and 180 gr. ammo into the same group, cherish it. Not common among rifles. E

I haven't ever gotten results as repeatable with ball powders as with stick. That being said, when I load stick I go directly to those choices that offer the highest load density for a given cartridge/bullet combination.

I've just been tinkering w/ BLC-(2) in the 338-06 A-Square and gotten decent results. Messing with H-380 in the same cartridge yeilded the lack of accuracy that has tainted my experience with ball powders.

In the 257 AI, however, H-380 w/ CCI-200s and 75 gr Vmaxes has done rather nicely accuracy-wise, even if at approx 3150 fps the load is particularly anemic compared to the capabilities of other powders with that cartridge/bullet combination.

The issue for me with powders that I (or more correctly, my rifles) love most like RL-19 & IMR-4350 is the potential change in POI. From summertime when I develop loads in temps likely to be near 100 degrees and hunting season when they can dip down near zero this could end up serious. Of course I'm shooting all the time so unless I were to travel with a brand new rifle it isn't likely that I'd not catch such a problem before pulling the trigger on game.

This would all be far more serious if I were a long range shooter... out beyond 400 yrds, I mean. Other than that it is rather acedemic if you're verifying zero before going into the field on any given excursion.

Here's something from an old post:

It depends...

What powder in what cartridge firing which make bullet and weight in a particular rifle, as well as ambient temperature, etc, etc, etc...

I've found certain ball powders to be the BEST choice for certain loads in particular rifles.

If we take into consideration all of the "ballisticians" and thousands of handloaders who've shot countless millions of loads in scores of thousands of rifles over the past 50 years, I doubt that you'd get a consensus on your question.

But FWIW, I've found RL-19, 22 and 7 to be quite temperature sensative. OTOH, RL-15 seems quite stable under variable temperatures within reason.

H335 (a ball powder), similar to TAC, has worked very well for me with heavy bullets in both the .458 Winchester Magnum and .45-70's in variable weather and temperature extremes. Hornady recommends it for the .458 Win Mag and .458 Lott firing the 500-grainers.

H414 (ball powder), similar to W760, has worked well in both a .35 Whelen and .350 Rem Mag with 300-grain bullets. It's close to IMR 4350 in burn rate applications. It has been recommended for (along with WW760)the 7mm-08 Remington and heavy bullets.

What I like about ball powders: 1)They meter very well
2)They take up less space in cartridges that could use a bit more of it.
3)They tend to produce higher velocity with less heat and pressure than stick powders (You can check this out in some manuals)

Though I've never tried it, I believe H414 should be an excellent powder in both the .308 Winchester and .30-06 Spr. for middle-weight bullets. JMO.

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

LightsOutSix: Your asking good questions, getting good answers I think. But, I'll just add this: I believe all Ramshot powders are ball powder[the rifle powders], and they work well. I use Hunter in one of my 30-06s with 165s. and it shootsVERRRRY well, thank you! In my other 30-06, Iuse H4350, and it works superb also. So there is a mix of powders to choose from. You might just give Ramshot Hunter a try. Good luck. Tom

Okay... Ball powder is like a Cam from Comp Cams, and stick powder is like one from Isky. Both can make stellar horsepower in a Street Stock, but many things influence the decision... So in the end, you expirament and stick with what works for you...

We won't get into the advantages of a .875" lifter over an .842" tonight...

Lately I have been starting out with Ramshot powders and usually find a good load. They meter so nice that it is a shame to use something less friendly if I don't need too. My 222, 223, and 30-06 loads are typically all Ramshot powder driven.

Need to try Magnum again and see how it does. They are less temperature sensitive that H414 but more so than Varget...

Scientifically speaking, most stick powders are single based (nitro-cellulose), and ball powders are typically double-based (nitro-glycerin added)...