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#3160171 - 07/16/09 07:53 PM Re: WOW, M1 carbine ammo... [Re: rost495]
derby_dude Online   sleepy
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 11/21/06
Posts: 32418
Loc: Montana, Lewis and Clark Count...
Originally Posted By: rost495
I dunno if I'd call the carbine the best self defense weapon by a LONG shot.... We've shot a lot of hogs with them and have never been impressed, I'd take a light short AR ANY day over that 30 carbine round. And I"ve been much more impressed with my carry kimber on hogs, 45 acp.

I've shot a carbine all the way to 200 yards a LOT in practice matches and such, just ain't much of anything IMHO.

That being said I've hunted deer with a 32-20 the last year and been happy, its an antique but its far from what I'd call the ideal deer round even though I took 2 deer and a javelina with it.

Jeff


I wasn't thinking self-defense in the four-legged animal kingdom but self-defense in the two-legged kingdom. Having used a full size M-16 and a full size M-1 carbine and I like the M-1 better because it was always with you. The M-16 was a bigger rifle and heavier and one had a tendency to lay the M-16 against a tree or leave it in the vehicle rather than having it with you when you needed it. One could just lay the M-1 carbine across one's back and the little rifle would just stay there until needed.

Rear area troops need a self-defense weapon that frees the hands and yet is always available. The full size M-16 did not fit that need well at all. Civilians have the same needs as rear area troops, hands free and their self-defense weapon always available, the M1 carbine fits that role better than any AR type rifle.
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#3160218 - 07/16/09 08:10 PM Re: WOW, M1 carbine ammo... [Re: derby_dude]
The_Real_Hawkeye Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 68717
Loc: Northern Florida
Originally Posted By: derby_dude
I wasn't thinking self-defense in the four-legged animal kingdom but self-defense in the two-legged kingdom. Having used a full size M-16 and a full size M-1 carbine and I like the M-1 better because it was always with you. The M-16 was a bigger rifle and heavier and one had a tendency to lay the M-16 against a tree or leave it in the vehicle rather than having it with you when you needed it. One could just lay the M-1 carbine across one's back and the little rifle would just stay there until needed.

Rear area troops need a self-defense weapon that frees the hands and yet is always available. The full size M-16 did not fit that need well at all. Civilians have the same needs as rear area troops, hands free and their self-defense weapon always available, the M1 carbine fits that role better than any AR type rifle.
I agree.
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#3160290 - 07/16/09 08:42 PM Re: WOW, M1 carbine ammo... [Re: The_Real_Hawkeye]
bcp Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 03/04/05
Posts: 4359
Loc: SW WA
From:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQY/is_6_47/ai_74033105/pg_2/

The M1 Carbine For SELF-DEFENSE AND LAW ENFORCEMENT

Guns Magazine, June, 2001 by Charles Karwan

Probably the most authoritative account of the effectiveness of the M1 carbine in real combat comes from the superb book Shots Fired In Anger by John George. George served as a company grade officer in World War II in the famous Merrill's Marauders, operating behind Japanese lines. George was a highly experienced and successful service rifle competitor, shooter and hunter before the war, so all of his writing is from the perspective of someone highly knowledgeable about guns.

The M1 carbine was his primary weapon in the Marauders. The light weight of the carbine and its ammunition made it ideal for troops like the Marauders that carried all their supplies and equipment with them and were re-supplied by airdrops. His book covers several instances where he personally used or observed M1 carbines employed with great effect.

George reports, "The M1 carbine turned out to be the ace weapon of the war, as far as I am concerned. It was light and handy, powerful, and reasonably accurate ... The cartridge was powerful enough to penetrate several thicknesses of helmet, and to perforate the plates of the Japanese bulletproof vest, which would only be dented by .45 auto slugs. It was flat shooting enough to have practical accuracy at more than 200 yards ... For many types of offensive fighting, such as sneak raids and infiltration tactics, it was often superior even to the M1 (Garand), penetration being the only point of difference."

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#3160301 - 07/16/09 08:47 PM Re: WOW, M1 carbine ammo... [Re: bcp]
EthanEdwards Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 32859
Loc: Four States
Seems like history has been re-written. I talked to lots of WWII vets, including my Dad and Uncles. Almost to a man, if they had an opinion, it was a negative one on the Carbine. Most liked the Thompson, with the caveat that it was heavy. Some liked the Grease Gun.

My Uncle carried one at D-Day and in the Belgium Bulge. He shot at some of our own men with it when they tried to hijack his truck presumably to sell on the Black Market.
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#3160430 - 07/16/09 09:54 PM Re: WOW, M1 carbine ammo... [Re: EthanEdwards]
tommygs Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 02/09/04
Posts: 1430
Loc: Austin TX
go to

www.odcmp.com

m1 .30 carbine ammo is $155/500 rounds. it's aguila, but it's good stuff, and the mexican manufacturers are not afraid of putting powder in a bullet. bad news is it takes 6 mos. to get a shipment in. 110 grain fmj, but i like it.

doesn't do much for big 300 lb hogs, but works ok on the smaller ones.

-tom
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#3160466 - 07/16/09 10:23 PM Re: WOW, M1 carbine ammo... [Re: EthanEdwards]
BMT Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 11/09/02
Posts: 18306
Loc: Alvadore, Oregon
Originally Posted By: ColeYounger
Seems like history has been re-written.


No, just a different author with a different mission.

As for using ball ammo, compare 9mm ball v. 9 mm JHPs.

The same applied to the 30 carbine. Soft point bullets, made to expand at MV of 1900 fps, have proven the M1 to be a fine defense weapon.

Inside of 50 yards, what you have is a combat accurate, fast shooting 357 mag.

Not a bad tool at all.

BMT
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#3160662 - 07/17/09 05:22 AM Re: WOW, M1 carbine ammo... [Re: BMT]
natman Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 08/11/02
Posts: 1049
The M1 Carbine is really a magnum pistol round in carbine drag. It is underpowered when compared to real rifle rounds. If it were a pistol its 110 grain HP at 1900 fps would generate "Ultimate Manstopper" headlines. It requires softpoint or hollowpoints to be effective.


Edited by natman (07/17/09 05:22 AM)

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#3160792 - 07/17/09 06:40 AM Re: WOW, M1 carbine ammo... [Re: BMT]
JOG Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 08/28/03
Posts: 10900
Loc: Minnesota
Originally Posted By: BMT
Originally Posted By: ColeYounger
Seems like history has been re-written.


No, just a different author with a different mission.


Or maybe just a different theater. The typical Japanese soldier was 5'-3" and 117-lbs.
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Forgive me my nonsense, as I also forgive the nonsense of those that think they talk sense.
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#3161087 - 07/17/09 09:10 AM Re: WOW, M1 carbine ammo... [Re: JOG]
BMT Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 11/09/02
Posts: 18306
Loc: Alvadore, Oregon
Originally Posted By: JOG
Or maybe just a different theater. The typical Japanese soldier was 5'-3" and 117-lbs.


Excellent point.
_________________________
"The Church can and should help modern society by tirelessly insisting that the work of women in the home be recognized and respected by all in its irreplaceable value." Apostolic Exhortation On The Family, Pope John Paul II

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#3161212 - 07/17/09 10:05 AM Re: WOW, M1 carbine ammo... [Re: BMT]
rost495 Online   content
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 01/05/05
Posts: 34392
Loc: La Grange, TX
Interesting points.

357 mag has never been powerful IMHO. Its bottom line for me personally.

We shot all our hogs with 110 JHPS, I'd never waste shooting somethign witha FMJ in a carbine round.

As to carry on the person at all times, hell if I"m carrying an M1 carbine on a sling I'd jsut as soon have an M4 type light AR on a sling any day. To carry on a person at any time, the 45 acp does just fine, works fine on 2 legged vermin to well over 100 yards accuracy wise and has what I need for power.

As to good uses in combat, a couple of folks I know and respect from the Korean "conflict" said that the chinese came in waves and that you'd shoot and knock one down with a carbine only to have them get right back up again. And that the 45 was a better killer, but they had to be closer. And that they did find that the insulated clothing of the chinese to be enough to stop the carbine bullet.

As to penetrating further than a garand bullet, thats a joke IMHO and especially compared to the black tipped AP rounds.
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