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#3206733 - 08/05/09 Fire forming brass made easy
sakorick Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 10/19/05
Posts: 544
From time to time I have read threads on fire forming cases and would like to share my recipe. Bullseye pistol powder, Cream of wheat and 22 patches are all you need. I just fireformed 50 6.5-'06 Ackley cases in an hour and 5 minutes. I am now ready to glass the metal to the stock and will provide a range report in a few weeks. Brno commercial action, Shilen barrel, Timney trigger and spiffed up K98 bolt. Note I removed the bolt stop to facilitate shooting. Regards, Rick.


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Edited by sakorick (08/05/09)
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#3206839 - 08/05/09 Re: Fire forming brass made easy [Re: sakorick]
284LUVR Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 10/07/04
Posts: 10791
Loc: Enjoying a beautiful summer da...
Pretty slick.

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#3206849 - 08/05/09 Re: Fire forming brass made easy [Re: sakorick]
Grasshopper Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 02/13/03
Posts: 6332
Loc: Middle of the "Mitten"
Rick,

I have done much the same thing for years, Other than I use a block of parafin canning wax to plug the cases. I just jam the case in the block of wax and pull it out, trim the wax flush with the case mouth.

AS A CAUTION: I ALWAYS check the bore between shots to insure there is no bore obstruction. I'd sure hate to have a bulged or split barrel because of my negligence.... smile

GH
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#3206900 - 08/05/09 Re: Fire forming brass made easy [Re: Grasshopper]
bea175 Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 02/15/02
Posts: 28148
Loc: Kpt.,TN , Montgomery, Co, VA
I have always used Unique for this with cream of wheat and Crisco to seal
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#3207482 - 08/05/09 Re: Fire forming brass made easy [Re: bea175]
butchlambert1 Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 5538
Loc: Poetry, Texas
I just fireformed 40 pieces of 30BR brass. I use an old 6ppc barrel. I ran a .300 reamer down the bore about 3". This allowed me to run my 30BR reamer into the 6mm barrel. I rebated the rims on my 6BR Lapua brass inorder that it would work with my ppc bolt face. I load mine to the top of the shoulder with Bullseye and use wax to plug the neck. I fireform and then turn the necks. I can now see that I can use about any size barrel as a fireforming barrel. JUST DO NOT USE A BULLET WHILE DOING IT THIS WAY!!!
Butch

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#3207493 - 08/05/09 Re: Fire forming brass made easy [Re: butchlambert1]
JPro Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 12/13/04
Posts: 10086
Loc: Northern Louisiana
Guess I've been doing it wrong by flinging bullets at targets and critters to make my AI brass.... (grin)
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#3207505 - 08/05/09 Re: Fire forming brass made easy [Re: JPro]
badger Offline
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Registered: 01/25/01
Posts: 5633
Loc: Canton GA
Originally Posted By: JPro
Guess I've been doing it wrong by flinging bullets at targets and critters to make my AI brass.... (grin)


Me too......... blush
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#3207556 - 08/05/09 Re: Fire forming brass made easy [Re: badger]
sakorick Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 10/19/05
Posts: 544
Hello JPro and badger. No, you weren't doing anything wrong. But if you do it as described by many above you will save a bunch of cash(that's good), save needless rounds fired in your expensive barrel and......you can do it in your garage! Regards, Rick.
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#3207563 - 08/05/09 Re: Fire forming brass made easy [Re: sakorick]
butchlambert1 Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 5538
Loc: Poetry, Texas
An Ackley is different than a wildcat. Forming the Ackley is almost like shooting a factory round. Fireforming most wildcats is a completely different beast.
Butch

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#3207576 - 08/05/09 Re: Fire forming brass made easy [Re: badger]
Mark R Dobrenski Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 04/19/01
Posts: 28277
Loc: Bozeman, Montana
Originally Posted By: badger
Originally Posted By: JPro
Guess I've been doing it wrong by flinging bullets at targets and critters to make my AI brass.... (grin)


Me too......... blush


Me three....never had a Cat or AI yet that I couldn't hunt and or do some very good target work wilst fire forming... cool

Dober
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#3207618 - 08/05/09 Re: Fire forming brass made easy [Re: sakorick]
JPro Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 12/13/04
Posts: 10086
Loc: Northern Louisiana
Originally Posted By: sakorick
Hello JPro and badger. No, you weren't doing anything wrong. But if you do it as described by many above you will save a bunch of cash(that's good), save needless rounds fired in your expensive barrel and......you can do it in your garage! Regards, Rick.


I can see some instances where the cream of wheat process may be handy, such as needing some formed brass in a hurry or being short on useable bullets for fireforming. Some see making brass as an excuse to go shoot more. I was just picking at you.... wink
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#3207634 - 08/05/09 Re: Fire forming brass made easy [Re: butchlambert1]
JPro Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 12/13/04
Posts: 10086
Loc: Northern Louisiana
Originally Posted By: butchlambert1
An Ackley is different than a wildcat. Forming the Ackley is almost like shooting a factory round. Fireforming most wildcats is a completely different beast.
Butch


Please elaborate, as I'm not quite following you. A catridge case is sized in a die, be it a 30-06 case in a 30-06 die, a 30-06AI die, or a 6.5-06AI die. A shoulder is placed where appropriate for headspace, be it a wildcat, an Ackley, or a boring old factory chamber. The appropriate bullet/powder/primer are installed, the gun goes bang, and you have a nicely formed case for your chamber. Maybe it is a 6mm Dasher, a 250AI, a 338 Edge, or a plain-jane 308win, but the process should be the same. Maybe I'm missing something.....
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#3207756 - 08/05/09 Re: Fire forming brass made easy [Re: JPro]
1lesfox Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 562
Loc: ND
I did the cream of wheat thing. It makes a big mess is the tube. I went to shoting paper or someing to fire from my 22-250 AI it is alot more fun seeing what you are hitting. You can kill things when you are fire froming. (grin}


Edited by 1lesfox (08/05/09)
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#3207782 - 08/06/09 Re: Fire forming brass made easy [Re: 1lesfox]
butchlambert1 Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 5538
Loc: Poetry, Texas
Yes, you are wrong Jpro. I want to say this in a nice way to not make anybody upset. To form some wild cats the shoulder is much less than the chamber length. Can't use the shoulder on some wildcats. You form a false shoulder and fireform. If you use a bullet you might get on paper and be able to hit the backboard while fireforming. When I am fireforming some wildcats I don't have the time to go to the range or hunting grounds to fireform. I am able to shoot out the window of my shop and get it over with.
Most Ackleys that you mentioned are overbore and just burn the throat to gain very little velocity and probably less accuracy.
If you think about it, yes, you are missing something.
Butch


Edited by butchlambert1 (08/06/09)

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#3207805 - 08/06/09 Re: Fire forming brass made easy [Re: butchlambert1]
JPro Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 12/13/04
Posts: 10086
Loc: Northern Louisiana
"A shoulder is placed where appropriate for headspace".

I'd say this fairly well encompasses the idea of a false shoulder, which takes but a stroke of the press, same as any other. I don't recall asking about Ackley chamberings being overbore, or accurate, or slow, only how fireforming a wildcat is "a completely different beast". A properly sized and loaded round doesn't care if it is about to become an Ackley, a Gibbs, a Mashburn, or a Weatherby. A pull of the trigger produces a formed case nonetheless, even with the wildcat 6.5-06AI in question.
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#3207818 - 08/06/09 Re: Fire forming brass made easy [Re: JPro]
JPro Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 12/13/04
Posts: 10086
Loc: Northern Louisiana
I think Butch is inferring that some wildcats take a lot of brass manipulation before you can ever pull the trigger, and he's right about that. I was simply stating that one everything is cut down, necked up/down, and headspaced, the trigger pull is all the same, whether something is getting blown out or not. No worries....
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#3208123 - 08/06/09 Re: Fire forming brass made easy [Re: butchlambert1]
sakorick Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 10/19/05
Posts: 544
Originally Posted By: butchlambert1

Most Ackleys that you mentioned are overbore and just burn the throat to gain very little velocity and probably less accuracy.
Butch


Hello Butch. I have been shooting Acklies for some 40 years now and have never experienced "throat burn" whatever that is and less accuracy. My average velocity gain is 150'/sec per caliber per bullet weight which I consider free speed. I rarely have to trim brass and the cases last forever. The most maligned cartridge IMHO is the 30-'06 which was my first Ackley and my favorite......especially with the new ultra long high BC bullets. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. Regards, Rick.
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#3208856 - 08/06/09 Re: Fire forming brass made easy [Re: sakorick]
butchlambert1 Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 5538
Loc: Poetry, Texas
I think if you are honest very few ackleys give enough usable velocity gain. I have all of ackleys books and have had a few ackleys myself. A 280AI, 7-08AI, and a 223AI are great cartridges with the heavier bullets. It may be ok with the larger and heavier bullets in the 30-06 cases. Think about it, the more powder you push down that bore the more throat wear you will have.
My post above was in answer to your post on the 30-06 case ackleys and no others.
Butch

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#3210441 - 08/07/09 Re: Fire forming brass made easy [Re: butchlambert1]
ready_on_the_right Online   happy
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 01/26/01
Posts: 12862
Loc: GA, USA
I'm doing .30-06 to .338-06 and I used Dr. Howell's method.
1. Pistol primer
2. pistol or shotgun powder
3. then the quarter square of tissue tamped down on the powder.
4. then the cream of wheat
5. then cookie cutter some SPG or similar bullet lube so it doesn't all spill out.


Done 30 so far with great success!

Mike
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#3210606 - 08/07/09 Re: Fire forming brass made easy [Re: butchlambert1]
sakorick Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 10/19/05
Posts: 544
Originally Posted By: butchlambert1
I think if you are honest very few ackleys give enough usable velocity gain. I have all of ackleys books and have had a few ackleys myself. A 280AI, 7-08AI, and a 223AI are great cartridges with the heavier bullets. It may be ok with the larger and heavier bullets in the 30-06 cases. Think about it, the more powder you push down that bore the more throat wear you will have.
My post above was in answer to your post on the 30-06 case ackleys and no others.
Butch


Hello Butch. Let me get this straight....you are accusing me of being dishonest? I didn't start this, you did. First, I could give a rats a** what your adgenda is nor do I care about your experience with the 30-'06 AI as obviously you have none. Well, sir, I do. As for burning barrels, thats just plain hogwash. You want to burn barrels then see what a Remington 30 Ultra Magnum does or for that matter a 7MM Ultra Magnum or any Weatherby chamber.. The 30-'06 Ackley uses about 2 to 3 more grains of powder to generate 150'/sec extra velocity without excessive pressure and has the case space.....and I repeat.....to handle the new heavier ultra high BC bullets. It's not the powder that leads to throat erosion it's the speed of the bullet and jump to the lands that ruins barrels.....not an extra 150'/sec speed with a reasonable COAL, hopefully, measured. You said it yourself...."great cartridges with heavier bullets". This is a custom & wildcat forum....right? To me your post sounds like the same numb bashing of the 220 Swift which has been around for decades and loaded within reason, is no more a throat killer than any other cartridge. I'll probably get banned for this.....oh well. Regards, Rick.
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John Deere tractors and Sako rifles.....doesn't get any better.

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#3211679 - 08/07/09 Re: Fire forming brass made easy [Re: sakorick]
butchlambert1 Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 5538
Loc: Poetry, Texas
Didn't take much to get your panties in a knot. Go ahead and believe whatever you want.
Butch

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#3212517 - 08/07/09 Re: Fire forming brass made easy [Re: butchlambert1]
butchlambert1 Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 5538
Loc: Poetry, Texas
PO Ackley said the hottest safe load in the 150grn. 30-06AI was 3150FPS against 3043FPS with conventional loads from the Hodgdon book. He says the advantage with the Ackley is with the larger bullets. With the 180grn bullets the conventional 30-06 with 56 grns of 4350 is 2733 and the Ackley with 4 more grains of powder is 2920. Throat erosion is from heat and blasting the throart with unburned powder.
I reread my thread and can't find where I mentioned any ultra mags.
Butch


Edited by butchlambert1 (08/07/09)

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#3212831 - 08/08/09 Re: Fire forming brass made easy [Re: butchlambert1]
atkinsonhunting Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 03/04/01
Posts: 6954
Loc: Filer, Idaho, USA
I use dacron most of the time and stick a bit block of 1/2 inch thick parafin under my reloading bench and after I throw a powder charge of bullseye or some other pistol powder I punch that wad of parafin and I got a loaded round..I put it under the bench so that I don't have t tip the case to get the parafin in it.

There are a lot of ways to accomplish the same thing and they all work, you can just load the ammo with a bullet and shoot it for that matter, just seat the bullet out to almost touching or touching the lands..I have heard this practice discouraged but I have never been told why that is not good, it has been working for years for thousand of us old wildcatters. Just another wad of bunk that was in print, accepted as truth, and reprinted and became accepted by proxy as fact..The gun world is full of such and such BS, I could write a book on silly beliefs especially concerning double rifles, They are comprised of steel, wood and VOODOO!!! smile smile
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#3212955 - 08/08/09 Re: Fire forming brass made easy [Re: butchlambert1]
Ringman Online   content
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 11/04/03
Posts: 17518
Loc: G P,OR
butchlambert1,

Quote:
With the 180grn bullets the conventional 30-06 with 56 grns of 4350 is 2733 and the Ackley with 4 more grains of powder is 2920.


It looks like from your post one acheives about 200 feet per second more velocity. If you don't think that is a significant increase, I think you are not really a gun buff.
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