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I'm seeking some expert knowledge and opions regarding the .25-08 or .25-308 wildcat cartridge. I'm considering converting my .308 Win. rifle to the .25-08 cartridge. I've searched this entire forum using "25-08" and got no hits, so I'm starting this new thread.

Please let me know if I should raise this question in a different forum or if you know of another source of information for me. Thanks smile

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Jay: it's an old wildcat generally called the 25 Souper. Should be a fine little cartridge, but it, IMO, is so close to the 250 Savage on one side and the 257Roberts on the other, that it has never been very popular.

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Might try in the Custom Rifles & Wildcats forum.

Whatever makes you happy, but you will be basically re-creating the .257 Roberts in a different shape, just as the 7mm-08 is a "new & improved" version of the 7x57mm.

For me, I can't see the point, but then again almost all wildcats are not really logical. Don't let that stop you...."cause I can" is enough reason for a rifle looney!!!!


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Interestingly, according to Jack O'Connor, this was what Winchester first intended to produce, until they heard that Remington was coming out with the .244. So they followed suit and necked down their design to 6mm. Too bad, as I think the .25-08 would have been a slightly better duel purpose cartridge.

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I think so, too. I think it makes better use of the short 2.8" magazine length than the .250 Savage but gives a little more length flexibility than the .257 Roberts.

That said, if I were rebarreling a short action with a .308 bolt face, I'd probably go with a .25x.284. I've done 6x.284, it doesn't feed real smoothly, but to me the performance gain over .243 was worthwhile and I think I'd find the same in .25 caliber.

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Ahem... http://www.reloadingroom.com/index_files/25-308.htm

If you can't see the page, you are using Internet Explorer instead of a good browser.


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Personally, I'd rather have a 250AI or 260 if I wanted to run something with that kind of case capacity in a 2.8" action. The 25-284 is just as easy as the Souper, but grants some real performance gains in a short action rifle. Mine does 3,650fps with a 75gr V-max and 3,300fps or so with 100gr bullets. While the 284 case can present some OAL issues with high-BC bullets in the 6mm and 7mm variety, most of the .25cal bullets have shorter noses and can make 2.8" without issue.


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Why?
I'd build a .250 Savage or a .257 Roberts.
The .250 Savage is a little less than a than the .25 Souper and the .257 Roberts is a little more and all three will fit in most short actions.
So flip a coin.

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Originally Posted by TexasRick

Whatever makes you happy, but you will be basically re-creating the .257 Roberts in a different shape, just as the 7mm-08 is a "new & improved" version of the 7x57mm.


Whats improved about a loss of powder capacity and therefore velocity?

257 Bob and 257 AI are incredible, whether through a short, intermediate, or standard length action.

7x57 is the ultimate in versatility.

Originally Posted by TexasRick
...all wildcats are not really logical. Don't let that stop you...."cause I can" is enough reason for a rifle looney!!!!


Amen there.

I have a 270 WCF barrel laying around that I may have chambered to 270-308 Win just because. Dumb considering the 7-08 Rem, but sounds interesting... wink .

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efw, Hope you understood I was being sarcastic when I described the 7mm-08 as a "new & improved" version of the 7x57. I agree, the 7x57 is the ultimate in non-magnum 7mm cartridges.

Great idea on the .270-308....just because you can....but somebody already beat you to the punch. Created in the 1940's, it was called the .270 Titus (actually the Titus was based on the .300 Savage for use in Savage 99 rifles, but it's basically your .270-308 with a shorter neck).

Still.........why the hell not!!!


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Originally Posted by TexasRick
...the 7x57 is the ultimate in non-magnum 7mm cartridges.


TR, don your asbestos undies. The 280AI guys will be around soon with their flame-throwers.

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Originally Posted by Jayhawk_Dan
I'm seeking some expert knowledge and opions regarding the .25-08 or .25-308 wildcat cartridge. I'm considering converting my .308 Win. rifle to the .25-08 cartridge. I've searched this entire forum using "25-08" and got no hits, so I'm starting this new thread.

Please let me know if I should raise this question in a different forum or if you know of another source of information for me. Thanks smile

Jayhawk Dan




Jayhawk,

Being a little different is what "wildcatting" is all about. Forget the comparisons of this vs. that as I think it would make an interesting build, especially seeing you already own a .308. Rocky's article is an interesting read. Good luck with your choice.


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Originally Posted by Jayhawk_Dan
I'm seeking some expert knowledge and opions regarding the .25-08 or .25-308 wildcat cartridge. I'm considering converting my .308 Win. rifle to the .25-08 cartridge. I've searched this entire forum using "25-08" and got no hits, so I'm starting this new thread.

Please let me know if I should raise this question in a different forum or if you know of another source of information for me. Thanks smile

Jayhawk Dan


google search 25 souper, they already did it. Its spelled just like soup my opinion of the cartridge is that it is a waste of money and time. it cant do anything that the 257 roberts cant do. But if building wild cats is how you get your jollies go for it grin

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I'm with Pacman I do believe your 25-08 is the 25 Souper. In Wayne Van Zwoll's book Deer Rifles and cartridges he goes in detail on one he built with some handloading data. If you google 25 Souper you can get some info. Depending upon what action your using you maybe better off with a 257 Roberts AI but again there is nothing wrong with being a bit different..Good luck with the build.

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Having loaded for and shot the 250AI, 257Roberts, 257RobertsAI, 25/06, 25/284, 257WSM, 25Souper and the Souper AI, I prefer the plain Souper. I have killed a lot of deer with mine. I use necked up 243 brass.Rick.

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One might argue that the 257 Roberts won't do anything the 25-06 won't do, and the 25-06 won't do anything the 257 Weatherby won't do, and THAT won't do anything the 25 STW won't do ...

So are all but the biggest case per bore size worthless? Nope.

There's a niche for "justenuf" that can't be filled by something that's "modanenuf." The 25-308 fills that particular niche just fine. And for all who worship the 250 Ackley: surprise! The 25-308 is exactly the same, but without the case-forming hassles.


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Originally Posted by PacMan
google search 25 souper, they already did it. Its spelled just like soup my opinion of the cartridge is that it is a waste of money and time. it cant do anything that the 257 roberts cant do.

Except fit in a short action properly which it does better than a 257R.


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The .257 fits fine in a short action. I have owned,shot and hunted with a bunch of 2.8" magazined .257 Bobs and it does indeed do anything the .25-08/.25 Souper will do, though I guess it won't do it "properly," whatever that means.


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There is a gunsmith in Tappen ND by the name of Duane Spooner who has developed a cartridge with Hornady dies that he calls the .257 DGR. It is based on a .260 Rem case necked down to .257 caliber and the neck slightly lengthened. I had him make me one a few years ago on a Rem 7 action. It is virtually the same as the .25 Souper or 25-08. Really like mine and case forming is very easy by just necking down .260 brass and shooting. He calls his business Duane's Gun Repair (DGR). Google him if interested. He has some load data from his load development tests and others posted on his web site. Good luck with your project.

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