Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Muzzleloaders Musket caps and TC Renegage

What has your experience been with using musket caps vs #11 percussion caps in your side hammer MLs?

I've only shot my TC Renegade with #11 percussion caps with BP, Pyrodex and 777.

Recently, I bought a TC Magnum Musket nipple (TC No.7252) to try and would like to get a preview of what to expect. The blurb from TC is that the Musket cap will give 2X the fire volume and 700 degree hotter flame.

What were your findings? Observable changes in FPS, POI?

I switched my sons Thunderhawk over to musket caps due to occasional misfires. I never chronied it before hand but it is extremely accurate and no longer misfires. This is a 1st generation in-line but I doubt the results will be any different.

They work well with my TC GreyHawk (stainless side-hammer) but they don't fit in the TC speed loaders so I stick with the #11s. I don't have problems with ignition if I keep my load fresh in wet conditions (ie November in Western Oregon). If I could shoot better I wouldn't have to worry about the second shot and the speed loader issue! But I always reload quickly as the smoke clears just in case.

I prefer #11s.

i use remington 40% more spark #11's. CCI also makes the #11 magnum.

the musket cap is a lot easier to handle with cold fingers. Nothing with them at all. I find that the nipple design and cause hangfires so i like to use the hollow base Spitfire nipple.

I have not had a problem with misfires since I changed to #11 magnum caps and pour the first 10-15 grains down the barrel and tap it over into the channel. I also changed to 3f 777 thinking the finer grain would be eaiser to get into the channel. In any case, that fixed my problem

However, my brother in law changed to musket caps and has not had a misfire since, even in rainy weather.

As a sidenote, I also have a Kap Kover for mine. Fits over the nipple and serves as a rain cap and also is a safety for the gun in the field. Check them out!

I outfitted one of my .54 caliber Renegade rifles with a nipple for musket caps. It works quite well. The larger musket caps are much easier to handle in very cold weather as someone else mentioned. For a hunting rifle, musket caps make a lot of sense. YMMV.

musket is all I use and solved my nephews hang fires that even 11 mags didn't solve on his renegade.

I don't chrono an MZ, and changing impact I can't say as I started with a musket cap. My nephews zero apparently didn't change much if any.

Neither are a big deal really. MV isn't great anyway and zero is simple, you change it.....

For the extra reliability its worth it to me.

txhunter58,

I hear you on the kap kover system. I have been a solid fan of the KK for quite a few years for both of the attributes you cite.

It appears that I may not be able to continue to use the KK system if I switch to musket caps because my Kap Kover system is for the #11 percussion cap. I am unaware if KK makes their system for musket caps.

Why?

Carbon12:

How did it go with the musket caps? After reading this thread, I bought a T/C musket nipple (no. 7204, a Hot Shot musket cap nipple) as that's all Sportsman's Warehouse had in stock. Anyway, I consistently had CCI musket caps fail to pop. (I'm shooting a .54 Renegade.) The primer stuff comes out of the cap and goes into the nipple.

I've had no problems with the Hot Shot nipple for No. 11 caps. As I'm new to this game, does anyone else have problems with CCI musket caps? I've had the rifle since it was new, from the late '70's/early 80's. Just never fired it until a couple weeks ago. Do musket caps need a heavier hammer spring/blow? Thanks for any suggestions anyone may have.

Make sure it is seated firmly on the nipple. Usually, for me, a failure to fire is caused by the cap being lightly seated. Depending on your nipple, and the brand of cap, they may be a tad on the tight side.

When you don�t get a fire but material from the cap is found on and in the nipple , its from bad caps .

As to the musket caps being hotter .
Well they are made the same way as #11 . Same material makes them pop .
But what is different is the nipple . If you look at the musket cap nipple and compare it to your #11 , you will see the difference.
Bigger hole , more flame. But also more back pressure coming back out of the nipple .
Another note here , is to remember TC uses an improved breech design . It must be kept clean or it will build up fouling and cause issues . that�s what the little clean out screw on the side is for . Take it out and clean the channel .
Over time fouling become carbonized . It may look clean and you cleaning patches may come out clean but that carbonized fouling is still in there . It has to be chipped and worked out or it will evntualy restrict the flash channel to a very small opening
If the channel builds fouling , you will see a benefit with the musket cap because of the release of back pressure burns out some of that fouling .

Remember the reason musket cap exist is because they were designed for military use . IE what you all are saying . They are easier to grab on to . The bugger hole is less subject to foul
just some thoughts , one should use what works for them

Thanks for the responses...I'll try another brand of musket caps, and thanks for the tip regarding the cleanout plug. Interestingly enough, when I called T/C to order a fiber optic front site (so much for tradition), I asked the lady if a flintlock touch hole cleaner would work for the caplock hole. She mentioned that I must have an earlier model, as they discontinued making barrels with the cleanout screw.

maybe they did or have now . but i have yet to see one without a cleanout screw . of cours some have Allen head screws . over the little flat head . .
IMO a very big improvement .maybe that�s what she was talking about

IMO the small litte screw the used was a PITA . IMO the vast % of folks didnt know what it was for and by the time they found out , the screw had become seized. Thus the one side of the screw gets broken off when they try to remove it .
Very year come hunting season I 5 or 6 that need the clean out drilled and tapped for a new screw . I have done 2 in the last month
Do yourself a favor and when you take it out . don�t put it back without an anti seize compound on the threads

Now this is just my opinion. If your using a synthetic powder then a musket cap might help you out.
All the lose synthetics that I know of , have a higher burn temp then BP . However that temp is still within the temp range of a #11 cap . Sometime I think they may be at the higher levels though . Thus if everything isn�t correct and you have a reduced channel �for any reason � then you start running into issue �s .
My suggestion to folks is to check everything over make sure your flash channel is clean . If they still experience problems then go with a musket cap as its in most cases the powder they are using that causing the problem .
Im a big believer in finding the why of something before I result to a bigger hammer to make the part fit / get the result I want .
Anyway , again best of luck to you im sure you will get things working . You might find you like the musket caps better . They are a lot easier to handle if you don�t use a capper . Especially if its cold out side . Also don�t forget you can make your own leather disc capper , that will hold the musket caps . Such an item is even easier to hold and you don�t have to fumble with individual caps

I've used the same nipple on my muzzleloader for over 20 years. About 4 years ago I started getting misfires and after looking at the problem I saw that my nipple was starting to "peen" or mushroom out at the top due to repeated firing.

5 minutes with a small file fixed that up. No problems ever since.

yep thats common . but remember the peen you see on the outside , is also happening on the inside , thus reducing the flash channel. Using a file is a good way to clean that up . But when you see a nipple, doing what you describe, its telling you its time for a new nipple . They don�t last forever .
Something a lot of people don�t seem to know , is that you should NEVER drop the hammer to the nipple without a cap on it . This includes inlines that use a nipple screwed into the plug over a plug with a primer seat .
Folks often do this after cleaning . To solve that problem just get you a washer for a kitchen Facet . It will fit over the nipple and stick just alittle above it . With that washer on the nipple , you can drop the hammer all day long and not damage the nipple .
it�s a really good thing to use when you tuning a trigger or lock where you have to drop the hammer over and over

captchee:

Naw, my case is a firm example of, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. The nipple was (is) brand new, the hammer has never been dropped on an empty nipple, and, in the two weeks that I've been shooting this rifle, it's never failed to go off with no. 11 caps. It's not that the musket cap popped but didn't set off the charge...four just didn't pop at all, and left the priming mixture inside the nipple.

Anyway, your point about putting antiseize on the cleanout screw is well taken. I've been sure to do that each time I cleaned the barrel. Thanks for your comments.

yep ,,,bad caps
caps can draw moisture . even brand new tins and do that very thing . Be it musket or #11