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#3228758 - 08/14/09 05:11 PM Re: Big Eyes or a Spotter? [Re: Enrique]
Eremicus Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 03/01/01
Posts: 12574
Loc: Placerville,CA,USA
A tripod will allow to see the finest details faster and w/o the eye strain of a hand held binocular. But, like I said, I've "dead rested" my old 9X35 B&L's ( only 24 ozs. !) and several others, including my big 12X50 BN's many times. Was, for instance, watching both elk and deer, in the open near sun down last year, many times, at 4-5 miles.
They can be made to work. E

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#3242792 - 08/20/09 12:26 PM Re: Big Eyes or a Spotter? [Re: Eremicus]
Trevor60 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/30/06
Posts: 43
As you already have a set of binoculars I would go with the spotting scope.
I have read both the article and Enriques comments and the one factor that seems to pop out is FOV. At first I couldn’t imagine how a set of bin with a 56mm lenses would see better then a top of the line spotter with 80mm. Then you look at the difference in FOV The Swaro 15x56 are 239 @1000 the Kowa spotter 20-60x80 is less then half (20x) 113 @1000.

The other thing that struck me was the improvement of FOV by simply adding a tripod both the article and a number of comments from this thread have mention how much more they could resolve because they used a secure platform to steady the bins on.

Third the 15x Minox that you are looking at is slightly less then double your existing 8x. MY question is how much better the resolution of the 15x is over your existing 8x and would it be worth plunking down the additional $600 on a pair of bin that will do slightly more then your current Leupolds.

***Get a tripod first and see how much more you can pick up on a steady rest. The tripod can be interchanged if/when you decide to buy the binoculars or spotting scope.

The spotting scope on the other hand starts at 20x (for the most part) which is slightly less then 3 times the magnification then your bin’s and can resolve up to 60x if desired. The extra power will allow you to better distinguish between an animal that is worth pursuing and one that isn’t. Higher magnification is also better at penetrating the woods for those animals that hiding in the tree line.

To Enrique
My questions would be
How many times when you identified an animal did your clients rush to view the animals size with their spotting scopes over you bin’s and maybe more importantly after you spotted game did you ever use your client’s spotter to resolve the animal to determine whether or not it was worth pursing? ((ass)(u) (ming) “HUGE” pain in the ass trophy hunters)

Second question in your experience how much would Bluedreaux be giving up if he used his 8x power over buying a 15x.

I have a pair of 10x Nikon and a 20-60x80 spotter and currently I am comfortable with my existing set up because I can quickly scan the clear cuts with the 10x and focus in on those interesting areas with my spotter. Dark moose against shadowed tree lines force me to use high magnification even at relatively short distances 100 meters.

Last point to you Bluedreaux as you have already priced out the Minox at $600 you seem to be already leaning that way over a spotter so buy what makes you happy.

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#3242958 - 08/20/09 01:29 PM Re: Big Eyes or a Spotter? [Re: Trevor60]
GreatWaputi Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 11/07/02
Posts: 4392
Loc: Utah
World of difference between 8x and 15x. Think of it as going from 1x to 8x. Think you'd notice much of a difference? The other point of using big eyes over a spotter is most people don't use a spotter to look for game. Spotters generally only come out once someting is located. If you can stand to look through one eye for an extended period of time, more power to you. The view with two eyes vs one is so much easier theres's no comparison.

I also don't need to judge an animal right to the inch, so "big eyes" work perfect for me. Big enough at 15x is big enough to go after.

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#3243139 - 08/20/09 02:29 PM Re: Big Eyes or a Spotter? [Re: GreatWaputi]
SLM Offline
Member

Registered: 04/10/09
Posts: 161
Loc: NM
You can judge an animal from long ways with 15s on a tripod.
Also where I hunt the mirage keeps you from using much over 15 anyways until late in the year on most days.

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#3243599 - 08/20/09 05:12 PM Re: Big Eyes or a Spotter? [Re: Trevor60]
Enrique Offline
Campfire Ranger

Registered: 03/27/01
Posts: 2154
Loc: Mammoth AZ USA
The pickiest client once asked how good could I judge coues. I told him within 3 inches give or take. I then asked what he was after. He told me the first couple days I want a buck over 100 and after than I will look to decide what I want. Then he asked about optics. I told him (at the time) I use 15x60 Fujinon HB bins on a tripod. He asked about a spotter I told him none. He asked if i was crazy, I asked him if he was. The client almost went home.
We went coues hunting. I found deer and he would ask how big. I would either tell too small or a shooter. We found a spot the second night where big bucks were poping up. That night I found a monster about 600 yards out. I did a quick judge with half hour left of shooting light. and all I said was I got a big buck lets go. He insisted on seeing the buck and I told him we'll lose time. But he wanted so I showed him and he said wow. bY that time the buck started feeding and before I got him close enough he was gone. 110 buck easy. The following day I said how big of a buck do you want? He said 100 or bigger. That morning I found a buck in the high 90's and he said I want him. He shot at 425 yards and missed. We walked down and checked and just like I told him thru my bins clean miss. oN our way back up we spotted another buck about 800 yards out. I think it was over 800 I can't remember. He asked home big I said 100 to 103. We bailed off found him and killed him at 318. WhenI put the tape on him he scored 102 6/8. We have hunted 3 times since then and he never asks me to see a buck he just takes my word for it.

How many times have they pulled out their spotters? None unless they were glassing with a spotter then I'd have to point the deer out anyways.
How many times have I used my clients spotter?
On one hunt where we were strickly meat hunting. It was the first archery hunt for the client and all we wanted was a kill. I used his spotter to make sure the buck I had found had antlers or not.
How many times have I used a clients spotter when trophy hunting? None I never needed too. Big is big and when you find a good buck, you get closer if needed to get within inches of the score.
Most of the game I find is a long ways off. Between say 600 yards and say 4 miles max. If I can see antlers at 4 miles away with a 15x bin, he's a buck I want to go kill. I haven't found many beyond 2 miles, but whenI have they have been huge.

15x bins are great not too strong, but not weak. They allow me to see better in the brush at close range, but they allow me to see big a miles away. I can honestly judge a good buck over 1 mile away to within 5 inches. Under 1 mile, I can get within 3 inches just by using my 15x bins.

Most of my clients I had understood that I was good with my bins. Most never knew how good bins on a tripod were until they hunted with me. Most of the times they would ask to look thru my bins and just go wow!
Ask AKJeff about Sonora, ask Rick Bin and Blaine about Arizona. Just to name a few. Big bins on a tripod more times than not ruled out the need of a spotter.
_________________________
Enrique O. Ramirez

"..faith is being sure of what you hope for and certain of what you do not see.." Hebrews 11:1

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#3244871 - 08/21/09 08:05 AM Re: Big Eyes or a Spotter? [Re: Enrique]
Trevor60 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/30/06
Posts: 43
Thanks for the detailed response Enrique. You almost have me converted. At a min I will borrow a pair and give them a try.

If i am going to get a pair I am going for these LOL...actually this is what i think of when i think of Big eyes for long range hunting.

I found them here http://www.bigeyes.ca/f_00_Home.html

Great Wapiti your scaling is off 8x vs 15 power is closer to 1x vs 2x.
At 100m 8x is 12.5m
100m 15x is 6.7m




Edited by Trevor60 (08/21/09 08:07 AM)

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#3245187 - 08/21/09 10:25 AM Re: Big Eyes or a Spotter? [Re: Trevor60]
RedRabbit Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 06/24/04
Posts: 1384
Loc: Flagstaff, AZ
Wow, 27 lbs for those tubes.

I would like to look through some of the Kowa Highlanders for grins. $5Gs kinda keeps it out of the hunting pack.

I have looked through the Docter 30x Aspectums. Tends to make you glass farther than you can hike to in a reasonalble time.
_________________________
Doug's Photo Gallery


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#3245263 - 08/21/09 11:02 AM Re: Big Eyes or a Spotter? [Re: RedRabbit]
Enrique Offline
Campfire Ranger

Registered: 03/27/01
Posts: 2154
Loc: Mammoth AZ USA
Yep those docters are a great bin, but you glass too far when you use them. That happened to me a few times and I had to drive and then hike to get to the deer.
Duwane Adams got 2 Swarovski spotters paired together with 30x eye pieces and those things are just wicked as far as glassing goes.

I'll stay with the bins I have and save my cash.
_________________________
Enrique O. Ramirez

"..faith is being sure of what you hope for and certain of what you do not see.." Hebrews 11:1

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#3246067 - 08/21/09 06:06 PM Re: Big Eyes or a Spotter? [Re: Trevor60]
Hawker Offline
Member

Registered: 10/11/08
Posts: 180
Originally Posted By: Trevor60
Thanks for the detailed response Enrique. You almost have me converted. At a min I will borrow a pair and give them a try.

If i am going to get a pair I am going for these LOL...actually this is what i think of when i think of Big eyes for long range hunting.

I found them here http://www.bigeyes.ca/f_00_Home.html

Great Wapiti your scaling is off 8x vs 15 power is closer to 1x vs 2x.
At 100m 8x is 12.5m
100m 15x is 6.7m




Looks awesome. How do you plan to carry them? smile mount it on the truck bed?

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#3247332 - 08/22/09 11:03 AM Re: Big Eyes or a Spotter? [Re: Trevor60]
GreatWaputi Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 11/07/02
Posts: 4392
Loc: Utah
You may have already seen it, but take a look at the link below (page 8 of that thread) for an illustration of what the difference is between 8x and 15x:

Find the deer

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