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Originally Posted by derby_dude
Originally Posted by Idaho_Shooter

German built?
1970's - 80's era Japan built?
American built?
Are they not currently built in Japan?


About a decade ago I read an article from Weatherby that they had a falling out with the Japanese government and had found a company that built weapons for the military in Saco Maine, Saco Manufacturing I think it was. As far as I know they are still building Weatherby actions.

BTW: I went to the Weatherby site and built a Weatherby left-hand rifle for over $3,000 and that with a "custom" stock that would not have fit me. I stayed away from any fancy extras, just a plain Jane. For that kind of money I can have a custom rifle built to my specs with a stock that fits.


Derby, it looks like we are both wrong. I was sure the Saco thing had come to an end several years ago. This is what I found if the source can be believed.

Quote
Weatherby currently offers two lines of rifles: the Mark V and the Vanguard. The Mark V is manufacted by ATEK in Brainerd, MN while the barrel and action for the Vanguard are manufactured by Howa in Japan. Final assembly of the Vanguard is performed at Weatherby's company headquarters in Paso Robles, CA. The Mark V sports Weatherby's 9-lug bolt, which is reportedly the strongest bolt action available. Both the Mark V and Vanguard are available as sub-MOA rifles in various models (ranging from blued to stainless steel metal and kevlar to wood stocks) and calibers .223 through .300 Weatherby Magnum. Calibers .340 through .460 are only available on the Mark V platform due to the stronger bolt.


From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weatherby


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I'll disagree that it's the safest,you will have to come up with a little more evidence than you provided in your last post to prove it to me,now I will say that I don't know which action is the safest,we all put alot of faith in our favorite manufacture to put out a safe product,but if someone of Mr Howell's back ground brings this up, I think one would be foolish not to take a little notice!

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Originally Posted by Ackleyfan
I'll disagree that it's the safest,you will have to come up with a little more evidence than you provided in your last post to prove it to me,now I will say that I don't know which action is the safest,we all put alot of faith in our favorite manufacture to put out a safe product,but if someone of Mr Howell's back ground brings this up, I think one would be foolish not to take a little notice!


What we know for sure is it is the most tested action out there and especially given the low price of the 30/378 Synthetic model. There are lots of 30/378s out there, it is a real hot rod calibre and has the big case head as well. Then we also had the years prior to the late 1990s when the 30/378 and 338/378 were both wildcats and more than one or two Mark vs were converted to those calibres.

Is there any other rifle in wide circulation that you can think of which can boast a track record of 30/378 hammering. Maybe an M70 or Rem 700 or Ruger would have been fine, but we don't know, can only speculate.

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All this talk of blown up rifles, leads me to ask if others can think of a blown up Ruger or groups of Rugers blowing up (as the MK V is inferred to be doing)?

Not talking barrel obstructions but action failures? I can't seem to remember one bantied about the net.

That said, were I horned up for a Wby cart. (and I ain't) - I would have one built on a Ruger. Like the asthetics and ergos mo' bettah...


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Originally Posted by Mike378
Originally Posted by Ackleyfan
I'll disagree that it's the safest,you will have to come up with a little more evidence than you provided in your last post to prove it to me,now I will say that I don't know which action is the safest,we all put alot of faith in our favorite manufacture to put out a safe product,but if someone of Mr Howell's back ground brings this up, I think one would be foolish not to take a little notice!


What we know for sure is it is the most tested action out there and especially given the low price of the 30/378 Synthetic model.


Can you show us proof? there is alot of other brands that have been around awhile!I too could go out on a limb and say most Weatherbys are not the most tested action because the ammo is to expensive to buy,but that would be a total guess on my part!

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Originally Posted by curdog4570
Originally Posted by ltppowell
Weatherby and Sako fans are loyal. You gotta give 'em that.


Rolling the clock back to the forties and fifties , if someone [ Weatherby ] introduced a cartridge/rifle combo which claimed to outdo ALL the production stuff of its' time , and looked just like all the other stuff , everyone would have called B.S.

The double radiuis shoulder and different bolt lockup could be put down to an advertising gimmick except for one thing and everyone knows what it is :

THEY WORK !!



Yeah, they work. But so does the Savage, Remington, Winchester, and Ruger. Just as well!

Don't get me wrong, my all time favorite rifle still has to be my 26 inch MIJ MK V Varmintmaster in 22-250. It was a sweet little rifle and shot sweet little groups. But I would never have owned it had a local dealer not clearanced them out at half price.

Roy Weatherby was all about hoopla, gimmicks, and advertising.

Heck, he could have sold the MK V for the same price as a Model 70 and forgone the Vanguard, had he not been buying all those celebrity safaris and endorsements.

Roy is often quoted as admitting the double radius shoulder was just a gimmick. It was introduced to make chamber reamers and reloading dies more difficult and expensive to produce. Thus helping to prevent private gunsmiths chambering custom built rifles in Weatherby cartridges. The shoulder design of the Weatherby magnum cartridges does nothing to enhance velocity or reduce chamber pressure.

Don't want Mom and Pop shops competing with the factory, don't you know.

Savage, Winchester, Ruger, and Remington have all built rifles which are chambered for Weatherby cartridges, they are all quite up to the task. Perhaps with the exception of the 378 and 460 Weatherby.

What Weatherby did was design large cartridge cases in smaller calibers before any major factory did it. Then he stuffed them to the nuts with powder and attempted to keep pressures under control with extra long free bore.

I'll be the first to admit the 300 Wea was a very impressive critter, when all you had to compare it with was the 30-30, or the original slow loads in the 30-06 and 300 H & H. That is not so true any more with Imperial mags, Dakota, Lazzaroni and numerous other proprietary cartridges.

Heck there is not a nickle's worth of real world performance difference between the 300 Winchester and the 300 Weatherby.
Except that Roy did it first!

But it was not anything which any wildcatter could not have done with a bit of cash to spend. And there sure was not any magic involved.


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Originally Posted by teal
All this talk of blown up rifles, leads me to ask if others can think of a blown up Ruger or groups of Rugers blowing up (as the MK V is inferred to be doing)?

Not talking barrel obstructions but action failures? I can't seem to remember one bantied about the net.

That said, were I horned up for a Wby cart. (and I ain't) - I would have one built on a Ruger. Like the asthetics and ergos mo' bettah...


Ever since the 375 Ruger was announced, I have had an itch for a 26 inch 30-375 Ruger.

A full length H & H cartridge can be tough to shoe horn into a Model 77 Ruger. But here I would have exact 300 Wea powder capacity and performance in a cartridge which would fit easily into the 77.


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UHH, No; The ammo is obviously not to expensive . I posted a couple pages back that the shooter having problems on the WBY site has fired 800 factory rounds " in preparation for a hunt " .

I thought the same as you - I've handloaded for all my weatherbys - until I learned about this guy's experience ---------------- ON THE INTERNET !

I don't believe Ken lies , but I believe he will find out he has been lied to . No other way to say it .

I had a 378 Wby built on a P 17 and I didn't get the warm fuzzy feeling from it I get from a Mark V . But I'll bet it was plenty safe .


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I was just trying to make a point,I said... I could go out on a limb,I'm sure there are people with plenty of cash to feed their rifles,but just because a manufacturer has inexpensive rifles doesn't make them the most tested,remember there is no free lunch when it comes to velocity,just maybe things are catching up to Weatherby,or maybe I'm too far out on that limb!!

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Who can match the field-testing of jillions of '98 Mausers by several countries in several wars?


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Good point!

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"Heck there is not a nickle's worth of real world performance difference between the 300 Winchester and the 300 Weatherby.
Except that Roy did it first!"

30-06 150 gn max 2950
300 win 150 gn max 3200
300 Wby 150 gn max 3400

Does that mean the 300 win hasn't a nickels worth of real worls performance over an 06?


Yes, I own a 300 wby. Not sure it is worth the extra expense of brass and recoil/ powder burned, but an Ultralight at a killer price became my first Weatherby rifle.

Funny how this has, unless the replies are in pun, a fear amongst some posters. Almost everyone knows someone who stuck mud, bullet, bug in a barrel and bananna'd it, but the guns failed to cause injury. This is becoming a Wby against the world debate, sort of like my favorite Mopar Vs every other brand name.... Being different has it's advantages, if you have thick enough skin.

I am contemplating a 257 Wby right now, and feel a 25-06 is plenty fast for my needs. So I am on the prowl for another lightweight speedster in 25 caliber..... since I have plenty of brass/ dies for that caliber and it would save quite a bit to not have to buy another setup...

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I'm personally not into Weatherbys for myself, way too much fluff,but if someone else chooses to use one by all means make yourself happy,I get nothing out of finding out that they are flawed,but I won't stick my head in the sand when a man with Mr Howell's background brings something as important as this to our attention...if he was talking Rem 700 I would still be listening!!

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I thought about this photo when I first saw this thread. This photo is NOT of a Weatherby! It apparently occurred in mid-2004, and a recall resulted for affected Sako & Tikka barrels. The shooter was said to have both arms under the rear of the stock, and was not seriously injured. .300 Winchester mag factory ammo.

[Linked Image]

Again, NOT of a Weatherby. The point is that even reputable modern makers can have quality lapses.

We have a member here who over the years observed several Weatherby ammo problems as a rangemaster, and a thread at the other website is reporting pressure problems with new Weatherby ammo. I have personally had 2 boxes of factory .25-06 ammo that was way off spec, luckily on the low side. If you take ammo that is normally loaded to the hot side, and throw in a handful of bad parts, things can logically get nasty.

All that said, I'd still consider a Weatherby, if it happened to be in a useful caliber/rifle, at a good buy. Ruger and Remington both have made rifles in Weatherby Calibers, and I'd consider one of them, too. After thinking it over, however, I think handloading is indicated. I like that Weatherby builds their Mark V in the US, and I hope they can quickly get to the bottom of this and resolve the problem, or prove these failures are nothing more than rumors.


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It boils down to do you want two lugs the size of broom sticks or nine lugs the size of pencils.

I would also think the problem is probably with those factory Wby Magnun cartridges, not standard or Win mag or Rem mag, etc.

To add to the factory Wby Magnum loads are the handloaders trying to duplicate the Wby (Norma) factory ammo and living on the edge, pressure wise.


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Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Holy Crud!! I have two Mk V rifles, 1) an ultra-light in .30-06 and 2) a factory custom, black stainless, Fibermark in .280 Remington (7mm Express). Not sure I want to keep them now.

Hey Hawk,

We can work something out...

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Originally Posted by triggerguard1
Not to say you may not have gotten what you paid for, but it is a physical impossibility to have all nine lugs touching equally.

When two or more surfaces reside in parallel planes, there can only be one primary locator, or one lug or pair of lugs. The other lugs will simply be the secondary, or otherwise known as along for the ride.

It's just the math and engineering of it all, nothing more.

I'll take you at your word Matt. Gordy Gritters did the work, and he charges top dollar for his services. The rifle, which I'm sure you've seen in photos here, is a 30-378 Improved. Gordy built it from the action up. It's a Weatherby action, McMillan stock, Krieger barrel and Vias brake. It's wonderfully accurate, easily staying around 1/2 to 3/4 MOA out to 600 yards. I've developed a very good customer/service provider relationship with Gordy, so, if he claimed he lapped the lugs into contact, then he got as close as anyone could to full contact on all 9 lugs. I hand load only, so I really have zero concerns about shooting my rifle.

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Originally Posted by Magnumdood
but it is a physical impossibility to have all nine lugs touching equally.

When two or more surfaces reside in parallel planes, there can only be one primary locator, or one lug or pair of lugs. The other lugs will simply be the secondary, or otherwise known as along for the ride.

It's just the math and engineering of it all, nothing more.


Not correct at all,just takes time. Have done lots of lapping on other kind of parts.

May take a fair amount of stock removal & a coarse lapping compound with some backward pressure against the boltface (preferably with the barrel off) but it will happen.

As machined/ground, then no, they will not all have equal contact.



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I noted on my Weatherby that I purchased over 25 years ago that the contact wasn't 100% but after years and years of shooting the lugs seem to wear in to each other by themselves. They now are very shiny indicating full contact. Could this be? Do they eventually mate after cycling 1000's of times?


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Originally Posted by Ken Howell
Who can match the field-testing of jillions of '98 Mausers by several countries in several wars?


But they were not firing 378 based calibres with a lot of hot rod handloading.

For those who don't think the 30/378 is reloaded, it is group A dies with RCBS.

I ask the question again....is there is any other action in wide circulation that has taken 30/378 hammering and also as a wildcat in the Mark V.




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