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#3434179 - 10/30/09 Re: .270 Win. Ackley Improved (AI) [Re: Savage_99]
nsaqam Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 05/01/08
Posts: 16540
Loc: Hermantown MN
Qouting Ken Waters on the .270 Win.
"...reducing barrel length below 24 inches is like installing a governor on a sports car to restrict its speed."
_________________________
The Chosin Few November to December 1950, Korea.
I'm not one of the Chosin Few but no more remarkable group of Americans ever existed.

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#3434405 - 10/30/09 Re: .270 Win. Ackley Improved (AI) [Re: nsaqam]
brooksrange Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 06/30/05
Posts: 822
Loc: USA
Here's what really got me thinking about the .270 AI that has the possibilities up higher than the 280 or 280AI? I don't know...

Originally Posted By: Rodbolt
[quote=RinB] I think the 270AI is interesting though, the new RL-17 powder may get the 270AI into WSM velocity.


Quote:
SAEED: Several people used this rifle (270 AI) on several African safaris, bagging well over 100 big game animals, including all the larger plains game such as sable, zebra, kudu and waterbuck. Most were shot using the Barnes X 130-grain bullet, although some were shot with the Trophy Bonded 140 grain Bear Claw. Both bullets performed without a single failure.


Quote:
Wmramse- Primos Cabin- The only differences in AIs vs. their standard versions are much less (if any) body taper, longer body and neck, but shorter shoulder set to 40 degrees instead of the typical 17 degrees (for the '06 family). The sharper shoulder angle and less body taper help to burn powder more efficiently, and the overall cartridge design means easier chambering and less bolt thrust. Add in the extra powder and you can get roughly the same ballistics as a .270 WSM.


Quote:
Nathanial- 150 TSX's go at 2950 with 59 grains of H4831sc
130 Accubond's at 3210 with 61 grains of H4831sc
Both loads shot over my Oehler.
60 grains of can be got into the case with the 150's but with a fair amount of compressing. 59 grains is the accurate load in my rifle so that is where I keep it.


Originally Posted By: colmacivor
...With the new powders I think the 270AI is a real consideration reguardless what might have been the opinion when these new powders were not avail.. Also the 270AI with a 110 sierra at 3500'/sec is a serious coyote getter. My 270 AI has now accounted for a Rocky Mt Bighorn Ram, a Desert Bighorn Ram, quite a few wild hogs, African plains game, a Thar, and a few big muledeer. Would recommend if someone likes to reload and tinker with their hunting rifles..Good hunting John


Lots of praise- and why I ask- would you give a 270AI as an option for a mountain hunting rifle for sheep, goats, mule deer, black bear and some coyotes and wolf?
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Monster Whitetails are Awesome!!!

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#3434515 - 10/30/09 Re: .270 Win. Ackley Improved (AI) [Re: BobinNH]
Big Stick Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 01/25/01
Posts: 37736
Loc: Paradise,Alaska
You'll not catch me making mention of 150's in anything .284",but you were lauding 150 Factory loads in your 7Remmie,like they were sumptin'. They ain't.

Is 2-4" of barrel length decrease and adding another round in the belly,a fair trade,when musing a 280AI over a 7Remmie? I'm of the opinion that such things start hedging real world bets rather nicely,as per a utilitarian rifle that is actually shot in the field,as opposed to one speculated upon.

Gimme the Montucky 7WSM...mainly because I shoot 'em all..............
_________________________
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."

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#3434519 - 10/30/09 Re: .270 Win. Ackley Improved (AI) [Re: nsaqam]
Big Stick Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 01/25/01
Posts: 37736
Loc: Paradise,Alaska
2" of barrel won't cost a 25-06 100fps.

Rest assured that ain't a guess................
_________________________
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."

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#3434596 - 10/30/09 Re: .270 Win. Ackley Improved (AI) [Re: ]
brooksrange Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 06/30/05
Posts: 822
Loc: USA
With the new powder, the 270 AI seems faster than a regular 270WSM and almost a Weatherby- It looks like with biger bullets that it might surpass the 280 and 280AI in capabilities too?

Quote:
NEW TECHNOLOGY MAXIMIZES VELOCITY

Alliant Powder introduces ReloderŪ 17, a smokeless powder that utilizes new technology to increase projectile velocity in most standard rifle calibers and the new short magnum cartridges.

CALIBER BULLET VELOCITY GAIN
270 Win 100 gr HP 3554 +118

Caliber Bullet Case Primer COAL Chg Wgt Velocity
270 Win 100 gr Fed Fed 210 3.100 59.0 3554
_________________________
Monster Whitetails are Awesome!!!

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#3434607 - 10/30/09 Re: .270 Win. Ackley Improved (AI) [Re: ]
nsaqam Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 05/01/08
Posts: 16540
Loc: Hermantown MN
But according to experts I trust such as Mr. Waters and Mr. O'Connor, as well as my own experience, 2" of barrel length lost WILL cost the .270 Win over 100 fps.
2" extra barrel length is no handicap that I can see.
_________________________
The Chosin Few November to December 1950, Korea.
I'm not one of the Chosin Few but no more remarkable group of Americans ever existed.

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#3434634 - 10/30/09 Re: .270 Win. Ackley Improved (AI) [Re: brooksrange]
SU35 Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 08/14/02
Posts: 11994
Quote:
With the new powder, the 270 AI seems faster than a regular 270WSM and almost a Weatherby- It looks like with biger bullets that it might surpass the 280 and 280AI in capabilities too?


And if you load 17 into the WSM and WBY you will get higher speeds.

Pressure for pressure with the same barrel length, no Ackley
round is going to get within 200 fps of a magnum round.

Outside of saving yourself time trimming brass the Ackley is
most overrated. You can load it's unimproved daddy to within
50 to 75 fps of it.

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#3434670 - 10/30/09 Re: .270 Win. Ackley Improved (AI) [Re: nsaqam]
Big Stick Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 01/25/01
Posts: 37736
Loc: Paradise,Alaska
You are as full of shitt as they are,if you even begin to muse such a copious load of BS........................
_________________________
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."

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#3434685 - 10/30/09 Re: .270 Win. Ackley Improved (AI) [Re: SU35]
Big Stick Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 01/25/01
Posts: 37736
Loc: Paradise,Alaska
A 26" 257Wby doesn't have 200fps on a 24" 25-06AI....let alone one in 26" That ain't a guess.

A 24" 7mmRemmie doesn't have 200fps on a 280AI...that ain't a guess.

'Course,I shoot em all................
_________________________
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."

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#3434734 - 10/30/09 Re: .270 Win. Ackley Improved (AI) [Re: ]
Tejano Offline
Campfire Ranger

Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 1789
Loc: Out Yonder
I liked the bumper sticker I saw in Montana that said
"You ain't S*** unless you have a 280" only thing wrong it should have been a 280 AI.

270 is hallowed and sacred don't mess with it. Besides a 270wsm will beat the 270 AI with no great pains. If you really want to trump them all get the 270 Roy and be done with it.
_________________________
The future is not what it used to be.

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#3434743 - 10/30/09 Re: .270 Win. Ackley Improved (AI) [Re: Tejano]
Big Stick Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 01/25/01
Posts: 37736
Loc: Paradise,Alaska
WSM and 2.5" Roy capacities rate another peek................(hint)
_________________________
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."

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#3434840 - 10/30/09 Re: .270 Win. Ackley Improved (AI) [Re: ]
nsaqam Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 05/01/08
Posts: 16540
Loc: Hermantown MN
My Tikka T3 with 24" barrel chambered in .270 WSM is no faster weight for weight than my 24" .270 Win.
Not only that but the WSM's (I've owned the 7 WSM and the .270 WSM) were a pain to load.
I haven't even mentioned the fact that the WSM's have the less than optimal rebated rim on them too.
.270 Roy I'll give you. Very nice round.
To the original poster I'll say again that the plain old .270 Win WITH A 24" BARREL will give you more of everything than a 22" .270AI.
You have to pull the barrel to do an AI as well so I'd recommend either buying a 24" barrel for your present rifle or find a 24" rifle already chambered to .270 Win. They are plentiful for you right handers, not so much for us lefties.
_________________________
The Chosin Few November to December 1950, Korea.
I'm not one of the Chosin Few but no more remarkable group of Americans ever existed.

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#3435019 - 10/30/09 Re: .270 Win. Ackley Improved (AI) [Re: nsaqam]
John_G Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 01/03/03
Posts: 1430
Loc: B.C., Canada
I'd be interested for a quoted reference from Jack O' re: the 24-inch .270, for, IIRC, he shot and recommended the 22-inch version, claiming 3140 fps in his handloads using 4831.


Edited by John_G (10/30/09)

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#3435569 - 10/30/09 Re: .270 Win. Ackley Improved (AI) [Re: BobinNH]
RDFinn Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 01/02/06
Posts: 17607
Loc: Bernardsville, NJ
Why don't we just say that the difference between a 270. 280 Ackley and a 7RM is basically the same, up or down. I'm a reloader so you might as well add the costs to reload each if discussing all the merits. 280 brass is cheaper than 7 mag and in a pinch you could use 06 brass as well for the standard or Ackley version of the 280. Less powder, recoil, muzzle blast and usually packaged in a light config make the 280 Ackley more attractive to me than the 7RM. Unless your ammo doesn't make it to your destination for some reason (and everything it was packaged with) ammo availability is a non-starter for me. For me, it's the sum of little gains that make the whole package more attractive than either the 270 or the 7RM. Won't argue the paper ballistics cause that's all that it is, paper and arguing.

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#3435571 - 10/30/09 Re: .270 Win. Ackley Improved (AI) [Re: John_G]
nsaqam Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 05/01/08
Posts: 16540
Loc: Hermantown MN
On page 1030 of Ken Waters' pet loads 8th edition Ken writes;
"In a letter years ago, Jack O'Connor told of two of his .270 Winchester rifles, one having a 22 inch barrel that chronographed 95 fps less than his 24 inch barreled rifle with 130 grain bullets and the exact same load. It's interesting to note how closely that difference agrees with my findings."

As for Mr. O'Connors preference I have no information.
_________________________
The Chosin Few November to December 1950, Korea.
I'm not one of the Chosin Few but no more remarkable group of Americans ever existed.

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#3435677 - 10/30/09 Re: .270 Win. Ackley Improved (AI) [Re: nsaqam]
BRoper Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 08/22/03
Posts: 837
Loc: Parma, Idaho
A few yeas ago somebody, I think it might have been Boddington, did a comparison of the .270 Win. and .270 WSM. He used the same rifles with the same length barrels. He said that with some loads the WSM was faster and with others the .270 Win was faster. At the end of the article he said if he owned one or the other he wouldn't sell it to get the other, not enough difference.
_________________________
"I've labored long and hard for bread,
For honor and for riches,
But on my corns to long you've tread
You fine haired sons o' bitches"
Black Bart, po8

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#3435754 - 10/30/09 Re: .270 Win. Ackley Improved (AI) [Re: ]
BobinNH Online   content
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 01/28/07
Posts: 30536
Originally Posted By: PaleWhiteCracker
You'll not catch me making mention of 150's in anything .284",but you were lauding 150 Factory loads in your 7Remmie,like they were sumptin'. They ain't.

Is 2-4" of barrel length decrease and adding another round in the belly,a fair trade,when musing a 280AI over a 7Remmie? I'm of the opinion that such things start hedging real world bets rather nicely,as per a utilitarian rifle that is actually shot in the field,as opposed to one speculated upon.

Gimme the Montucky 7WSM...mainly because I shoot 'em all..............


PWC: You're right....they ain't.But they go bang in a pinch.....if I need them,away from home,was my point.

I'm with you on the extra round;situations do pop up.....


I shoot them all,too...range,and when I hunt....I through speculating.....


Edited by BobinNH (10/30/09)
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You can't say very much on here without pissing at least SOMEBODY off-get used to it.

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#3435785 - 10/30/09 Re: .270 Win. Ackley Improved (AI) [Re: BobinNH]
Eremicus Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 03/01/01
Posts: 18881
Loc: Placerville,CA,USA
I'm so disappointed.... I thought you guys were talking about the 30'06.......
Sorry Dober. I stole your line. E

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#3435833 - 10/30/09 Re: .270 Win. Ackley Improved (AI) [Re: Eremicus]
RDFinn Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 01/02/06
Posts: 17607
Loc: Bernardsville, NJ
Tomorrow I'll start a thread on " 30/06 twist......1-10 or 1-11....beer cans or bust...

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#3436204 - 10/31/09 Re: .270 Win. Ackley Improved (AI) [Re: nsaqam]
Big Stick Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 01/25/01
Posts: 37736
Loc: Paradise,Alaska
'gam,

The "troubles" you cite are squarely commensurate with your "experience" and that'd be an aged trend.

It takes some doing,to pull enough spark plugs on the WSM,to slow it to '06 case capacity velocities. Nawwwwww....it takes more than that.

I doubt you could reliably get the pointed end of a bullet,facing out of the casemouth..................
_________________________
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."

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#3436306 - 10/31/09 Re: .270 Win. Ackley Improved (AI) [Re: ]
rahtreelimbs Online   content
Campfire Guide

Registered: 01/19/06
Posts: 4602
Loc: The Burgh !!!
This is a good thread. I always thought that the 270 had enough neck that it could be moved up............sort of like a 300 wm or 300 sav..........and that would allow enough additional powder to make it worthwhile!


Guess I was wrong!
_________________________
........are you stupid or just misinformed???

Later, Rich !!!





















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#3437020 - 10/31/09 Re: .270 Win. Ackley Improved (AI) [Re: rahtreelimbs]
Big Stick Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 01/25/01
Posts: 37736
Loc: Paradise,Alaska
The 270Gibbs is your huckleberry...............
_________________________
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."

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#3437341 - 10/31/09 Re: .270 Win. Ackley Improved (AI) [Re: ]
nsaqam Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 05/01/08
Posts: 16540
Loc: Hermantown MN
Since PWC is the smartest, most experienced person to ever visit the Campfire you need to listen to him. It seems that his experiences are more relevant and valuable than anyone elses.
He must even have ESP too because he knows that I am incompetent and inexperienced even though he doesn't know me from Adams off ox.
I'll trust Mr. Waters and Mr O'Connor. You can have PWC!
_________________________
The Chosin Few November to December 1950, Korea.
I'm not one of the Chosin Few but no more remarkable group of Americans ever existed.

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#3437357 - 10/31/09 Re: .270 Win. Ackley Improved (AI) [Re: nsaqam]
Big Stick Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 01/25/01
Posts: 37736
Loc: Paradise,Alaska
I ain't guessing,therein lies the difference(s).

You can bullshitt the fans,but you can't bullshitt the players...............
_________________________
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."

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