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#6924510 - 10/01/12 Re: 300 Win Mag vs 300 Weatherby? What are the differences for big game hunting? [Re: jwall]
calikooknic Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 09/04/12
Posts: 6661
Loc: San Joaquin Valley, Kalifornis...
Well, I really lucked out. 100rds of new WBY brass in two 50rd MTM flip top boxes..........$5.00.

SHE appearantly didn't appreciate HE ran off with the secretary and stuck her with the bills from a failed business!
Women showed up at general club meeting and unloaded about twenty thou worth of guns, reloading, archery equipment, and cutlery for pennies on the dollar.
_________________________

Sean

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#6924516 - 10/01/12 Re: 300 Win Mag vs 300 Weatherby? What are the differences for big game hunting? [Re: BWalker]
Dirtfarmer Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 11/28/10
Posts: 13782
Loc: Central Louisiana
Originally Posted By: BWalker
I am sure yours is a keeper, but time has passed the swift buy and the 22-250 trounces it in sales.
The brass I spoke of was Winchester and they are the only ones who sell swift brass that I have seen and its a seasonal run at that.
I was in Gander mountain today and the didnt have a single box of 22o swift ammo.
The Swift IMO is sort of like the 6mm Remington Vs .243. The public chose the 243 and the rest is history.

I hear ya.

But, as you brought it up, I have a .244 Rem (6mm) but no .243. So, maybe I'm a curmudgeon from the past... laugh

6mm Rem, IMHO, is a better round, longer neck with no pressure variation issues. The public and the market may not always be right... shocked

DF

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#6924579 - 10/01/12 Re: 300 Win Mag vs 300 Weatherby? What are the differences for big game hunting? [Re: Dirtfarmer]
BWalker Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 02/25/05
Posts: 6706
Loc: Negaunee, MI
I have a 6mm Remington too. Its inferior to the .243 only in that it barely fits in a 700 short action.
_________________________
A drunkards dream if I ever did see one.

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#6924590 - 10/01/12 Re: 300 Win Mag vs 300 Weatherby? What are the differences for big game hunting? [Re: BWalker]
Dirtfarmer Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 11/28/10
Posts: 13782
Loc: Central Louisiana
Originally Posted By: BWalker
I have a 6mm Remington too. Its inferior to the .243 only in that it barely fits in a 700 short action.


Well, if it fits... smile

Does that mean you have problem with longer bullets, etc.? I've never played with a magazine fed 6mm Rem.

Mine is a 40XB single shot. Of course, no problems there... laugh

DF

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#6924635 - 10/01/12 Re: 300 Win Mag vs 300 Weatherby? What are the differences for big game hunting? [Re: Dirtfarmer]
CZ550 Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 05/12/08
Posts: 865
Loc: Kawartha Lakes, Ontario, Canad...
From my experiences with eight 300 Win Mags (22" to 26"), a 308 Norma (21") and a 300 WBY (24"), you can only compare "apples to apples" if the barrels are kept to the same length. Otherwise numbers can easily be "fudged". Then, there are other matters, like freebore, tight chambers and barrels that can make a significant difference from rifle to rifle in either chambering.

Having said all that, I've had 2 rifles, a 300 Win (26") and a 300 WBY (24"), that gave superb results from each in velocity and accuracy. So, I've used that experience, which was considerable, to make an evaluation between the two chamberings for my own purposes. I have NO prejudices for or against either. I very much like them both.

So, here is my objective evaluation (for my purpose):

1) Given excellent barrels with tight chambers, the 24" Weatherby would make 3185 fps from 180s using either IMR 4831 or RL-22. It couldn't quite make the 3200 fps suggested by Hornady's #4. But it was superbly accurate. (But I did chronograph loads for a fellow club member who used the same IMR load in his 26" MK-V and it recorded an even 3250 fps... exactly what Whetherby advertised for their 180gr factory fodder at the time, from a 26").

2) My only 26" 300 Win was just as accurate as the Weatherby (1/2" - 3 shot groups at 100 yds), and slightly better in velocity. Top MV from that rifle was 3215 fps from 180s. (BTW, I believe BOTH should use 26" tubes. A 2" shorter barrel WILL lose 50 to 100 fps in each, and I fail to see how 2" in hunting where these are suitable is gonna make any difference in handling!

3) In my summation: I slightly prefer the Winchester for a few personal reasons, but I've concluded that apart from likes and dislikes over rifle styles, that the actual difference in performance between the two, given the above quality of barrels that are equal in length is about 100 fps in favor of the Weatherby using the same powders and bullets.

And, BTW, the 26" 300 Win gave 3000+/- fps from 200s.

And, for any doubters, consider this: Nosler's #6 shows up to 3160 fps for their 180s and up to 2972 fps from their 200s in a 24" test barrel for the 300 WINCHESTER Magnum! My velocities were from a 26", so if Nosler's manual is realistic, then the 40 to 50 fps increase I received from a barrel 2-inches longer is realistic.

And, my brass in either could easily be reused 10X plus. Never a loose primer in either!

I think (a 300 magnum in) either version could arguably be considered the best all-around rifle/cartridge combo for any big game hunting in North America.

Bob

www.bigbores.ca
_________________________
"You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your INFORMED opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant"

-- Harlan Ellison

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#6924649 - 10/01/12 Re: 300 Win Mag vs 300 Weatherby? What are the differences for big game hunting? [Re: jwall]
RinB Online   content
Campfire Ranger

Registered: 03/06/08
Posts: 1503
The 416 Rigby, the 375 H&H, and the 300 Wby. Nothing introduced since each came into being is much of an improvement. Newer stuff may be a little different but for the sportsman/hunter there has not been a big gain. I should have said the 220 Rocket rather than the Swift. It was an oversight on my part.

I have never been too concerned about cost or if I can get ammo at WalMart. If I have to rely on WalMart for ammunition then I should be using a 30/06 or a 308 or a 243.

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#6925273 - 10/01/12 Re: 300 Win Mag vs 300 Weatherby? What are the differences for big game hunting? [Re: moosemike]
moosemike Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 06/10/10
Posts: 2896
Loc: PA
Originally Posted By: moosemike
Originally Posted By: CaptainCrossman
The differences for big game between 300 Win Mag and 300 Wthby Mag, are $1 per shell, compared to $2 per shell. That's about it. And maybe 100-200 fps at best, if loaded with the heaviest bullets, otherwise they are identical.

the reloading specs on some 300 mag family cartidgee are exactly identical, even though the case volume is a lot different. For instance 308 norma mag vs. 300 wthby mag, exactly the same powder charge for 150 grain bullets, for some powders.

we're talking the same girl in a different dress

It's really a question that borders on nonsensical, because you can fire 300 Win Mag ammo, in a 300 Weatherby. If you buy a 300 Weatherby, you basically get a 300 Win Mag and 300 H&H included, free of charge- because it will fire all 3 cartridges just fine.

no different than shooting 38 special out of a 357 magnum handgun, with the shell headspacing on the rim. In the 300 belted mag family, the shell headspaces on the belt, the case just fireforms to the chamber. If the caliber is the same, and the case is long enough to put the bullet tip into the throat lead of the barrel, it will fire out of the gun.

if one already owns a 300 Wthby Mag, it makes absolutely no sense to buy a 300 H&H or 300 Win Mag, or even a 308 Norma mag. If you want to try out a 300 H&H or 300 Win Mag, you can just buy a box of shells and shoot them through your 300 Weatherby. They are all basically the same in terms of performance. If one wants to try first time the 300 mag family and doesn't want the wallop, blast, recoil of the 300 RUM or 30-378, the 300 Weatherby is the only choice, and best choice, for this reason.

I would not magna port any rifle barrel, the blast effect on your muzzle-side ear would be dramatic, and your ear would ring for 3 days from firing one shot, or worse. It would require earmuffs just to hunt with. The dirty little secret about porting any barrel is, recoil is reduced, but muzzle blast is greatly INCREASED. But again, it gives the firearms companies one more thing to sell you.





You're actually recommending the practice of firing a .300 win mag in a .300 Weatherby?




Well?
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#6925373 - 10/01/12 Re: 300 Win Mag vs 300 Weatherby? What are the differences for big game hunting? [Re: Dirtfarmer]
BWalker Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 02/25/05
Posts: 6706
Loc: Negaunee, MI
Originally Posted By: Dirtfarmer
Originally Posted By: BWalker
I have a 6mm Remington too. Its inferior to the .243 only in that it barely fits in a 700 short action.


Well, if it fits... smile

Does that mean you have problem with longer bullets, etc.? I've never played with a magazine fed 6mm Rem.

Mine is a 40XB single shot. Of course, no problems there... laugh

DF

Yes it does and your stuck with one seating depth with as well.
_________________________
A drunkards dream if I ever did see one.

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#6925732 - 10/01/12 Re: 300 Win Mag vs 300 Weatherby? What are the differences for big game hunting? [Re: BWalker]
Dirtfarmer Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 11/28/10
Posts: 13782
Loc: Central Louisiana
Hmmm...

What about an aftermarket box with a bit more length?

DF

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#6925789 - 10/01/12 Re: 300 Win Mag vs 300 Weatherby? What are the differences for big game hunting? [Re: Dirtfarmer]
BWalker Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 02/25/05
Posts: 6706
Loc: Negaunee, MI
Thats a option, but then you have to mill the action, and they record of longer moag boxes feeding correctly is pretty spotty.
_________________________
A drunkards dream if I ever did see one.

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#6926017 - 10/01/12 Re: 300 Win Mag vs 300 Weatherby? What are the differences for big game hunting? [Re: BWalker]
Dirtfarmer Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 11/28/10
Posts: 13782
Loc: Central Louisiana
I guess if I was going to build one, I'd use a LA.

My 6.5-284 is on a pre-64 M-70 donor that was a .243. I knocked out the mag block, used '06 ejector and bolt stop. Wouldn't need to do any of that with a M-700, LA.

DF

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#6926024 - 10/01/12 Re: 300 Win Mag vs 300 Weatherby? What are the differences for big game hunting? [Re: RinB]
jorgeI Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 24009
Loc: Orange Park, Florida
Originally Posted By: RinB
The 416 Rigby, the 375 H&H, and the 300 Wby. Nothing introduced since each came into being is much of an improvement. Newer stuff may be a little different but for the sportsman/hunter there has not been a big gain. I should have said the 220 Rocket rather than the Swift. It was an oversight on my part.

I have never been too concerned about cost or if I can get ammo at WalMart. If I have to rely on WalMart for ammunition then I should be using a 30/06 or a 308 or a 243.


And oddly enough I hunted Africa with all three smile and for when I'm feeling "plebean" I do also have an 06 and a pocket T-shirt to fit in at Wal-Mart smile
_________________________
Originally Posted By JoeBob
I don't need a genealogy lesson from a Cuban mustefino who caught a ride over on a leaky 1957 Chevy that used milk jugs for floats.
Of course, I do have some lettuce that needs to be picked if you are interested.

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#6926098 - 10/01/12 Re: 300 Win Mag vs 300 Weatherby? What are the differences for big game hunting? [Re: jorgeI]
BandGHunter Offline
Member

Registered: 06/25/11
Posts: 169
Loc: Bucks Co. Pa.
Now my day is wrecked, someone had to mention Wal=Mart.....later

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#6926111 - 10/01/12 Re: 300 Win Mag vs 300 Weatherby? What are the differences for big game hunting? [Re: BandGHunter]
jorgeI Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 24009
Loc: Orange Park, Florida
I'm off to Wal-Mart myself too! smile
_________________________
Originally Posted By JoeBob
I don't need a genealogy lesson from a Cuban mustefino who caught a ride over on a leaky 1957 Chevy that used milk jugs for floats.
Of course, I do have some lettuce that needs to be picked if you are interested.

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#6926427 - 10/01/12 Re: 300 Win Mag vs 300 Weatherby? What are the differences for big game hunting? [Re: Brad]
DeerSkinner Offline
Member

Registered: 01/08/11
Posts: 242
Loc: South CA.
Stick with the 300 Win Mag. The small increase in velocity is not worth the increased recoil, limited avaiablity of ammo, and dealing with the increased muzzle blast.
_________________________
Rick

Life is not a spectator sport.




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#6926533 - 10/01/12 Re: 300 Win Mag vs 300 Weatherby? What are the differences for big game hunting? [Re: DeerSkinner]
Dirtfarmer Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 11/28/10
Posts: 13782
Loc: Central Louisiana
Originally Posted By: DeerSkinner
Stick with the 300 Win Mag. The small increase in velocity is not worth the increased recoil, limited avaiablity of ammo, and dealing with the increased muzzle blast.


+1

I've hunted with them both, currently have an Ed Brown Damara in .300 Win Mag and am not in the market for a Wby.

DF

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#6926876 - 10/01/12 Re: 300 Win Mag vs 300 Weatherby? What are the differences for big game hunting? [Re: Dirtfarmer]
Mule Deer Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 07/24/01
Posts: 36562
Loc: Banana Belt, Montana
I can't believe this thread keeps going on and on and on....

According to one rule-of-thumb about internal ballistics (proven both theoretically and empirically) here's about a 2% difference in potential muzzle velocity between the .300 Winchester and Weatherby. That's about 65 fps with typical 180-grain handloads. Wow!
_________________________
John

"Gunwriters, as you know, aren't as informed as their readers are and if it wasn't for the readers, there would be no need for writers..."--Shrapnel, May 2015

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#6926907 - 10/01/12 Re: 300 Win Mag vs 300 Weatherby? What are the differences for big game hunting? [Re: Mule Deer]
George_De_Vries_3rd Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 02/19/04
Posts: 10914
Loc: Iowa

Yea, but Johnny! It's the name; it's faster (as you mentioned) by a twit. Trump card! grin, A marketing managers dream.

And so it goes.
George

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#6926930 - 10/01/12 Re: 300 Win Mag vs 300 Weatherby? What are the differences for big game hunting? [Re: George_De_Vries_3rd]
Mule Deer Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 07/24/01
Posts: 36562
Loc: Banana Belt, Montana
Yep!

Which is exactly why the .30/.378 now outsells the "old fashioned" .300 Weatherby, according to one of my sources at Weatherby.
_________________________
John

"Gunwriters, as you know, aren't as informed as their readers are and if it wasn't for the readers, there would be no need for writers..."--Shrapnel, May 2015

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#6926937 - 10/01/12 Re: 300 Win Mag vs 300 Weatherby? What are the differences for big game hunting? [Re: Mule Deer]
Mark R Dobrenski Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 04/19/01
Posts: 28277
Loc: Bozeman, Montana
That's why the 300 Bee kicks butt on the Winnie the Pooh mag @ 301 yds... wink

Dober
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"True respect starts with the way you treat others, and it is earned over a lifetime of demonstrating kindness, honor and dignity"....Tony Dungy

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#6927100 - 10/01/12 Re: 300 Win Mag vs 300 Weatherby? What are the differences for big game hunting? [Re: Mark R Dobrenski]
viking Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 2656
Loc: Texas
I have had 3 different 300magnums, a 30-338, a 300 WM and a now a 300 bee. My favorite was the 30-338. From a reloading standpoint I like the Bee more than the WMag.
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Glocks remind me of an old German farm wife, kinda thick but will work night and day.

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#6927235 - 10/02/12 Re: 300 Win Mag vs 300 Weatherby? What are the differences for big game hunting? [Re: Mule Deer]
jwall Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 09/06/10
Posts: 5024
Loc: Southern Arkansas
Originally Posted By: Mule Deer
I can't believe this thread keeps going on and on and on....





Well, at least some of us aren't on the "Ray Atkinson" thread!! crazy


How 'bout a little credit? ? whistle
_________________________
jwall

aka - 3100 guy.

There is no aftermarket FIX for operator error. jw


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#6927310 - 10/02/12 Re: 300 Win Mag vs 300 Weatherby? What are the differences for big game hunting? [Re: Mule Deer]
BWalker Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 02/25/05
Posts: 6706
Loc: Negaunee, MI
Originally Posted By: Mule Deer
I can't believe this thread keeps going on and on and on....

According to one rule-of-thumb about internal ballistics (proven both theoretically and empirically) here's about a 2% difference in potential muzzle velocity between the .300 Winchester and Weatherby. That's about 65 fps with typical 180-grain handloads. Wow!

Pretty paltry increase in velocity for having to deal with a Weatherby...


Edited by BWalker (10/02/12)
_________________________
A drunkards dream if I ever did see one.

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#6927415 - 10/02/12 Re: 300 Win Mag vs 300 Weatherby? What are the differences for big game hunting? [Re: jwall]
Dirtfarmer Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 11/28/10
Posts: 13782
Loc: Central Louisiana
Originally Posted By: jwall
Originally Posted By: Mule Deer
I can't believe this thread keeps going on and on and on....





Well, at least some of us aren't on the "Ray Atkinson" thread!! crazy


How 'bout a little credit? ? whistle


laugh laugh

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