Page 2 of 3 < 1 2 3 >
Topic Options
#3490447 - 11/18/09 05:20 AM Re: QuickLOAD Barnes TSX/TTSX and Accurate Powders? [Re: oldman1942]
toad Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 02/01/09
Posts: 5132
Loc: Montana
QuickLoad proof barrel list

Available Test Barrels
.17 - 22 Hornet
.17 K Hornet
.17 Mach IV
.17 Rem Fireball
.17 Rem.
.17-222 Rem.
.204 Ruger
.215
.218 Bee
.219 Zipper
.22 Hornet 618
.22 K Hornet 600
.22 PPC
.22 PPC-USA
.22 Rem. Jet CF Mag.
.22 Savage
.220 Swift
.221 Rem. Fireball
.222 Rem.
.222 Rem. Mag.
.22-250 Rem.
.223 Rem.
.223 WSSM
.224 Weatherby Mag.
.225 Win.
.240 Belt. Riml. N.E.
.240 Fl. N.E. 600
.240 Weatherby Mag.
.243 Win.
.243 WSSM
.244 H&H Mag.
.244 Rem.
.25 - 20 Win.
.25 - 35 Win.
.25 Rem.
.25 WSSM
.250 Savage
.25-06 Rem.
.256 Mag. Gibbs
.256 Win. Mag.
.257 Roberts
.257 Weatherby Mag.
.260 Rem.
.264 Leroy N.E.
.264 Win. Mag.
.270 Weatherby Mag.
.270 Win.
.270 WSM
.275 Belt. N.E.
.275 H.V. Rigby
.277 GS
.280 Fl. N.E.
.280 Rem.
.280 Riml. NE Ross
.284 Win.
.297/230 Morris long
.297/230 Morris sh
.297/250 Rook Rifle
.30 - 06 Court Cartry
.30 - 06 Springfield
.30 - 06 Springfield Polygon
.30 - 20
.30 - 223
.30 - 284 Win.
.30 - 30 Win.
.30 - 378 Weatherby Mag.
.30 - 40 Krag
.30 Carbine
.30 Court
.30 FL. N.E. Purdey
.30 R Blaser
.30 Rem.
.30 Super Fl. H&H
.300 H&H Mag. 650
.300 Lapua Mag.
.300 Pegasus
.300 Rem. S.A. Ultra Mag.
.300 Rem. Ultra Mag.
.300 Savage
.300 Sherwood
.300 Weatherby Mag.
.300 Win. Mag.
.300 WSM 650
.300/295 Rook Rifle
.303 British
.303 Savage
.307 Win.
.308 E.H.
.308 Norma Mag.
.308 Win.
.308 Win. Polygon
.310 Cadet Rifle
.318 Riml. NE
.32 - 20 Win.
.32 - 40 Win.
.32 H&R Mag.
.32 Long Colt
.32 Rem.
.32 S&W
.32 S&W Long N.P.
.32 S&W Long WC
.32 Short Colt
.32 Win. SL
.32 Win. Spec.
.320 Long
.320 Short
.33 Win.
.333 Riml. NE
.338 - 378 Weatherby Mag.
.338 Lapua Mag.
.338 Rem. Ultra Mag.
.338 Win. Mag.
.340 Weatherby Mag.
.348 Win.
.35 Rem.
.35 Whelen 600
.35 Win.
.35 Win. SL
.350 Mag. Rigby
.350 No. 2 Rigby
.350 Rem. Mag.
.351 Win. SL
.356 TSW
.356 Win.
.357 Auto Mag.
.357 Mag.
.357 Maximum 150
.357 SIG 150 200
.357 SIG Polygon
.358 Norma Mag.
.358 Win.
.360 N.E. 2 1/4"
.369 N.E. Purdey
.375 Brandt 650
.375 Fl. Mag. N.E. 645
.375 Fl. N.E. 2 1/4"
.375 H&H Mag. 650
.375 Rem. Ultra Mag.
.375 W.R.
.375 Weatherby Mag.
.375 Win. 600
.375 R Hölderlin
.376 Steyr
.378 Weatherby Mag.
.38 - 40 Win.
.38 - 45 ACP 150
.38 - 55 Win.
.38 / 357 FX
.38 Long Colt
.38 S&W Colt N.P.
.38 Short Colt
.38 Special 150
.38 Special A.M.U.
.38 Special WC 150
.38 Super Auto 150
.38 Super Auto Polygon
.380 Long
.380 Long Rifle
.380 Short
.40 - 82 Win.
.40 S&W
.40 S&W Polygon
.400 / 350 N.E.
.400 Cor Bon
.400 H&H Mag.
.400 N.E. B.P. 3" Purdey
.401 Win. SL
.404 Riml. N.E.
.405 Win.
.408 Win.
.41 ACT EXP
.41 Long Colt
.41 Rem. Mag.
.411 K.D.F.
.416 Rem. Mag.
.416 Rigby 650
.416 Taylor 600
.416 Weatherby Mag.
.425 Westley Richards (Mag.)
.44 - 357 Bain-Davis
.44 - 40 Win.
.44 Colt
.44 Auto Mag.
.44 Rem. Mag.
.44 S&W Russian
.44 S&W Special
.444 Marlin 600
.45 - 70 Elko Mag.
.45 - 70 Government
.45 Auto
.45 Auto Polygon
.45 Auto Rim
.45 Blaser
.45 Colt
.45 GAP
.45 HP
.45 S&W Schofield
.45 Win. Mag.
.450 Marlin
.450 N.E No.2 3"1/2 Eley
.450 N.E. 3 1/4"
.450 Rigby
.450 Short
.450 Watts Mag.
.450/400 Mag. N.E. 3 1/4"
.450/400 N.E. 3"
.454 Casull Mag. 150
.455 Colt Eley Enfield
.455 MK II
.455 Webley
.458 Lott
.458 Win. Mag.
.460 Weatherby Mag
.460 Steyr
.465 H&H Mag.
.470 N.E. 650
.475 Ackley Mag.
.475 Linebaugh
.475 No. 2 N.E.
.480 Ruger
.50 AE 150
.500 S&W Magnum
.50 Browning
.500 N.E. 3"
.500/416 N.E.
.500/465 N.E.
.500/465 No. 2 Musket
.505 Mag. Gibbs
.577 - 500 N.E.
.577 N.E. 3"
.577 Sld. Snider
.577/450 Sld. Mart. H.
.600 N.E.
.700 H&H Nitro Express
.700/500
.700/577
10 mm Auto
10 mm Auto Polygon
10 x 25
10,3 x 60 R 600
10,4 Ord. It.
10,75 x 45 R
10,75 x 68
10,75 x 73
11,15 x 60 R
11,15 x 65 R Express
11,2 x 60
11,2 x 72 Schüler
11,6 x 66
12,5 x 70 Schüler
12,7 x 107
4 Bore Rifle
4,6 x 30
5,45 x 18
5,45 x 39 (5,45 x 39,5)
5,56 x 45 NATO
5,6 x 35 R
5,6 x 39
5,6 x 50 Magmum
5,6 x 50 R Mag.
5,6 x 52 R
5,6 x 57
5,6 x 57 R
5,6 x 61 R SE v.H.
5,6 x 61 SE v. H.
5,6 x 70 R
5,7 x 28
5,75 Velodog
6 mm BR Norma
6 mm BR Rem.
6 mm PPC
6 mm Rem.
6 PPC-USA
6,5 mm Grendel
6 x 47 ATZL
6 x 47 SM
6 x 50 R Scheiring
6 x 51 ATZL
6 x 52 R Bretschneider
6 x 62 Freres
6 x 62 R Freres
6 x 70 R
6,35 Browning
6,35 x 19 Fiocchi
6,5 mm Rem. Mag.
6,5 x 27 R
6,5 x 50 R
6,5 x 51 R (Arisaka)
6,5 x 52 Carcano
6,5 x 52 R
6,5 x 53 R Mannl.
6,5 x 54 Mannl.-Schön.
6,5 x 54 Mauser
6,5 x 55 SE
6,5 x 57
6,5 x 57 R
6,5 x 58 Mauser
6,5 x 58 R
6,5 x 63 Mag.
6,5 x 63 R MES Mag
6,5 x 64
6,5 x 64 Brenneke
6,5 x 64 R Brenneke
6,5 x 65 RWS
6,5 x 65 R RWS
6,5 x 68
6,5 x 68 R
6,5 x 70 R
6,5 x 72 R
6,5-284 Norma
6,8 mm Rem. SPC
7 - 30 Waters
7 mm - 08 Rem.
7 mm BR Rem.
7 mm Exp. Rem.
7 mm KM
7 mm Mag. Fl. H.&H.
7 mm Rem. Mag.
7 mm Rem. S.A. Ultra Mag.
7 mm Rem. Ultra Mag.
7 mm SE v. H.
7 mm STW
7 mm Weatherby Mag
7 mm WSM
7 x 33 Sako
7 x 39 Giat
7 x 45 Giat
7 x 49 GJW
7 x 50 R
7 x 57 R
7 x 61 Super
7 x 64
7 x 65 R
7 x 67 R Luyven
7 x 70 R Freres
7 x 72 R
7 x 75 R SE v.H.
7,35 x 52 Carcano
7,5 Ord. Suisse Pistol
7,5 x 54 MAS
7,5 x 55 GP11 SUISSE
7,62 Nagant
7,62 UKM
7,62 x 25 Tokarev
7,62 x 26,5 W.C.
7,62 x 39
7,62 x 45
7,62 x 51 NATO
7,62 x 53 R Finn.
7,62 x 54 R
7,63 Mauser 150
7,65 Browning
7,65 Long (French)
7,65 Parabellum
7,65 x 53
7,7 Japanese (Arisaka)
7,92 x 33 kurz
8 mm Gibbs
8 mm Gasser
8 mm Lebel
8 mm Lebel (M/93)
8 mm Rem. Mag.
8 mm Steyr
8 x 48 R
8 x 50 R
8 x 51 (Mauser K)
8 x 56 Mannl.-Schön.
8 x 56 R M 30
8 x 56 R M 30 S
8 x 56 R M Port. Krop.
8 x 57 I
8 x 57 IR
8 x 57 IRS
8 x 57 IS
8 x 57 R
8 x 58 R
8 x 60
8 x 60 R
8 x 60 RS
8 x 60 S
8 x 64
8 x 64 S
8 x 65 R
8 x 65 RS
8 x 68 S
8 x 72 R
8 x 75 RS
8 x 75 S
8,15 x 46 R
8,15 x 52 R
8,2 x 53 R
8,5 x 63
8,5 x 63 R
8,5 x 75 R
9 mm Bergmann - Bayard
9 mm Browning court
9 mm Browning long
9 mm Federal
9 MM FX & CQT
9 mm Luger
9 mm Luger Polygon
9 mm Makarov
9 mm Mauser
9 mm Steyr
9 x 18
9 x 21
9 x 22 Major
9 x 22 Major Polygon
9 x 23 Win.
9 x 24 KC
9 x 25 Super Auto G
9 x 56 Mannl.-Schön.
9 x 57
9 x 57 R
9,3 x 53 (Schweiz)
9,3 x 53 R (Finn)
9,3 x 53 R (Swiss)
9,3 x 57
9,3 x 57 R
9,3 x 62
9,3 x 63
9,3 x 64
9,3 x 65 R
9,3 x 66 Sako
9,3 x 70 (DWM569)
9,3 x 72 R
9,3 x 74 R
9,5 x 57 Mannl.-Schön.
9,5 x 66 SE v.H.
10,15 x 51
_________________________
Guns don't kill people, drivers with cell phones kill people.

Top
#3493071 - 11/18/09 07:57 PM Re: QuickLOAD Barnes TSX/TTSX and Accurate Powders? [Re: oldman1942]
Salmotrutta Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 10/06/09
Posts: 292
Loc: SW Colorado
Just some more facts....So far I still think there is something wrong with Barnes AA2230 data in Manual #4 for the .338 Fed. Ty didn't add anything I didn't already know. Still waiting for a response from Barnes about the actual .338 Fed pressure tests.

When you run the AA2230 data on Accurate's website for the .338 Fed - QuickLOAD matched it almost exactly. So that means that the test barrel model and the AA2230 powder data in QuickLOAD is pretty spot on. So the AA2230 burn rate, energy curve, etc. just like what Accurate considers AA2230.

When you run the 185 TSX Barnes data for 43.0gr of I4189 in QuickLOAD in a standard 24" bbl you get 54,644 psi and 2580fps.
Now Barnes Manual #4 doesn't list pressures but it does list a MV of 2572fps. Not only is that "safe" but also dead on. So the barrel Barnes used also seems to match QuickLOAD, and the bullet data in QL must be pretty close as well.

So I am having trouble believing that there is something wrong with QuickLOAD (regardless of the computer I run it on). Therefore I am left wondering if...

Did the test powder sent to Barnes as AA2230 - actually match the canister powder? Or was there some mixup along the way. Things happen - just trying to figure out what. Seems like a likely possibility.

BTW - I am also sick of hearing this Barnes bullets don't open up. Seems to me the TSX's open up as well as any other "tough" bullet - and the tipped bullets might actually open at lower velocities than the competition.

I bought my .338Fed Kimber 84M Montana for the same reason as you - 90%+ of all the animals I've killed were well within 300yds. When the elk around here smell hunting season - they ain't hangn' out in those pretty meadows. If I knew - or thought I really was going to be shooting over 300yds I'd take my "other" gun. But - I'd still like to get 400yds or so out of my 84M - just in case....
_________________________
"Do you want it "Right", or "Right now"? - always a good question.

Top
#3503726 - 11/22/09 05:46 PM Re: QuickLOAD Barnes TSX/TTSX and Accurate Powders? [Re: Salmotrutta]
oldman1942 Offline
Campfire Ranger

Registered: 09/15/09
Posts: 4310
Loc: WY & FL
Nice list of barrels....anyone actually seen them? You can see the pressure barrels at Barnes.

If you're still waiting to hear from Barnes you must not have phone service. I got through to Ty in three minutes.

I repeat there are no 88,000 psi loads in Barnes #4, it's just lousy code in the program.

Top
#3503937 - 11/22/09 06:55 PM Re: QuickLOAD Barnes TSX/TTSX and Accurate Powders? [Re: oldman1942]
toad Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 02/01/09
Posts: 5132
Loc: Montana
i could give your the contact number they list with the barrels but i see no reason to respond with your attitude.

they state the length and location of each barrel in that file.
_________________________
Guns don't kill people, drivers with cell phones kill people.

Top
#3504037 - 11/22/09 07:23 PM Re: QuickLOAD Barnes TSX/TTSX and Accurate Powders? [Re: oldman1942]
Salmotrutta Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 10/06/09
Posts: 292
Loc: SW Colorado
Nice guy that Ty is... He did respond to my e-mail and is "thinking" about the information. I think its fair to allow some time for all parties to test and evaluate the info as they see fit.

Still thinking about that "elk steak" dinner. Not that I need an elk steak (my freezer is full) but I might enjoy watching someone cook for me. So how about this...if they pull the .338 Fed loads with AA2230 from the manual, I still get my dinner?

So if there are no "high pressure" (not saying its exactly 88K) why did they pull the 7mm-08 AA2520 loads? They only went 71-74K psi in QuickLOAD......Hummm maybe they should have used QL first???
_________________________
"Do you want it "Right", or "Right now"? - always a good question.

Top
#3506241 - 11/23/09 03:44 PM Re: QuickLOAD Barnes TSX/TTSX and Accurate Powders? [Re: Salmotrutta]
oldman1942 Offline
Campfire Ranger

Registered: 09/15/09
Posts: 4310
Loc: WY & FL
What part of pick up the fing phone did you miss? It's an 800 number even!

Sounds like AA powder data is suspect, but why bother anyway?

If I can't do it with IMR, WRA or Hodgdon, I guess it can't be done.

BTW if you don't like the Barnes Book's data, then toss it in the garbage and switch to Sierra or Hornady... I'm sure they use Quickload rather than their own research facilities.... LMAO!

Top
#3506521 - 11/23/09 05:16 PM Re: QuickLOAD Barnes TSX/TTSX and Accurate Powders? [Re: oldman1942]
toad Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 02/01/09
Posts: 5132
Loc: Montana
i have and use every manual you mention, but the Hodgdon manual is more useful to me.

if it came down to one source, i'd keep QL. is it perfect? no.

is any paper manual perfect? nope.
_________________________
Guns don't kill people, drivers with cell phones kill people.

Top
#3508991 - 11/24/09 01:18 PM Re: QuickLOAD Barnes TSX/TTSX and Accurate Powders? [Re: toad]
oldman1942 Offline
Campfire Ranger

Registered: 09/15/09
Posts: 4310
Loc: WY & FL
The best deal is to get all the Hodgdon data on line FREE. Covers IMR, Hodgdon and WRA brands which are all I need.

Top
#3520693 - 11/28/09 07:39 PM Re: QuickLOAD Barnes TSX/TTSX and Accurate Powders? [Re: oldman1942]
kelbro Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 06/24/06
Posts: 369
Loc: AZ
I have spoken with Ty on several occasions and he has always maintained that Barnes does test every load that they recommend.

Quickload has been very, very close on many loads that I have tried.

Top
#3541122 - 12/04/09 11:42 PM Re: QuickLOAD Barnes TSX/TTSX and Accurate Powders? [Re: kelbro]
Salmotrutta Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 10/06/09
Posts: 292
Loc: SW Colorado
Answers? OK so here are the responses from those closest to the issue. I was fortunate enough to get a response from the Quickload (QL) developer, the bullet manufacturer and the powder manufacturer. That pretty much covers all the bases, if anyone thinks they know more than these folks, you are in the wrong job. Here are their answers to my question... "Do you think the Barnes .338 Fed data with Accurate powder is reasonable?" Here are the answers. The info may or may not be applicable to your situation, so please do NOT apply without doing your own research. I am amused by the difference between which ones actually understand what’s going on inside the barrel, and those that just read a gauge. You make your own call.

I have no doubt that Barnes runs each of their loads through a test barrel. The fact is “things happen”. Barnes has pulled several loads from the current manual. I am not suggesting that they are any more “reckless” than any other manufacturer. On the contrary, at least you can easily find the updates on-line. I suggest that ALL load manuals have errors – I just prefer not to find them in my gun.

As you can tell some in the industry use QL – some don’t.

From the developer of QL:

‘Even Accurate seems to change the manufacturer of their powders (formerly from Czech Rep.) to different origins. So the powders will be different, because they cannot manufacture equal types -they have to mix the powders to obtain the old specs.

To my knowledge, Barnes is testing the loads in rifles equipped with the Oehler Ballistc Lab. strain gage system. This allows no direct pressure reading, only comparison with reference loads with well known pressure curves.

75000 psi will not (always) exhibit high pressure signs. When you browse QL manual, page 114+115, I put some pictures of proof load case heads. They have been pressure tested before and their pessures are well known. With proper=small headspace there are minimal flattend primers. With weak brass primer can be popped.

You should try to email to ballistic lab guy of Accurate’

From Barnes Ballistician:

‘Powders will vary from lot to lot by as much as 3%. Not to mention all the other variables such as chamber dimensions, brass thickness and seating depth or distance from the lands. That is why every manufacturer suggests a 10% reduction from the max charges, starting low and working the load up as is customary in the reloading process.

There are also anomalies that we can't explain. You'd think that one more grain will give another 50fps as it had done for the last three 1 grain increases but sometimes pressure spikes and the velocity goes down. These are the type of things that Quickload can't predict.

The AA 2230 powder we use is the same stuff you get. We don't get a special lot from the manufacturer

I'd contend that our data is if anything a bit conservative. We use some of the tightest SAAMI spec barrels to simulate a worst case scenario.

Velocity is a good indicator of the best powder for a given scenario. And because AA2230 gives the highest velocity and best fills the available space (load density) with several bullets weights in the 338 Federal, I'd suggest it is one of the best choices.

So you see, just when I think I have it figured out I learn something new that just can't be calculated. We must test and go with actual data.’

From Western Powders Ballistician:

‘The only TSX bullet we actually tested was the 185grain. (Our measured data indicates 45.5grains vs 49.0grains of Barnes).
So it its higher than our test. However, I do not think it will be a serious increase in pressure that will cause problems. Calibers such as these tend to form a plateau (point of diminishing returns) in performance, and can actually at some point deliver reduced performance if more powder is added.
The issue with large expansion ratio calibers such as the 338Federal is that because of the high loading densities, a condition we call “premature shot start” occurs, which is very difficult to simulate. This “effect” can be amplified because of the reduced bearing surfaces (such as the TSX design) or special slippery coatings applied to some bullets.
Because the projectile moved away at a much earlier stage than normal, the effect is that the dynamics is “skewed” producing lower pressures because of a larger initial combustion volume.
Also the Freebore/leade dimensions of the barrel will be even more critical in such a case.
You can come close in QL by changing the shot start pressure to Zero and usually adding extra cc’s in case capacity to simulate the effects.
In such a case, it will important to measure the actual velocity, and adjust QL to suit the velocity value. The resultant pressure of QL pressure will be very close to the actual pressure.’
_________________________
"Do you want it "Right", or "Right now"? - always a good question.

Top
Page 2 of 3 < 1 2 3 >


Moderator:  RickBin, SYSOP 
Support Our Sponsors 1
Who's Online
549 registered (204guy, 22_250shooter86, 1990stanggt, 10generation, 257AI, 62 invisible), 1439 Guests and 382 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Support Our Sponsors 2
Forum Stats
50366 Members
72 Forums
631930 Topics
9063357 Posts

Max Online: 4366 @ 10/05/10 09:36 AM
Support Our Sponsors 3









Copyright © 2000-2013 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved.