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Unlisted numbers defeat half the purpose of having a telephone.

Dr. Howell,
If you will kindly permit me to disagree, I'll explain.
An unlisted number translates to having half the battle won, though I admit to having a personal bias against said instrument.
When it rings, 90% of the time it is not someone wishing to speak to me, but I answer anyway - I have a teenager, and he is seldom home. Of the other 10%, only 10% of those are people with whom I wish to speak (telemarketers are NOT in this group!). Guess that makes me a one-percenter?
So, I simply see the telephone as a necessary evil related to the cost of being able to associate with a better class of people. Namely, those on boards like this.
Pleading your graciousness......... Bug.

At the risk of hijacking the thread, I dare say you should see some of the Ignorance that walks into gun shops. (And some times behind the counter)

I am not speaking of everyone here, or the cartage / caliber debates you get everywhere.

I am speaking of things like the elderly lady who gun �wouldn�t let the bullets come out.� As she pulled out a fully loaded, cocked .38 spc. from her bag. The problem was she couldn�t get the live rounds out of the cylinder with the hammer back, and had no idea how to put it down.

Or the �hunter� who on the morning of opening day rushed in to have his scope bore sighted by us. You can tell this guy has a lot of trigger time.
He hands me the gun, a SUCKS .270, as is my habit, I through open the bolt and eject a nice fresh round from the chamber. This shop is in the middle of town not that that is an excuse, but the gun was either chambered in his house, or last season, you guess which.
I am a rite peace lovin man. And I am on the big side so I try to keep my temper down. But watching a live round ark through the air with a shop full of opening day business I just lost it. As far as I was concerned this was carelessness butting against homicide and I turned the air blue saying so.

Man, how many times has some one come in and wanted to buy some Hi powered 9mm rounds. It�s for a Browning hi power you know.

�I need some bullets for my gun�, yes sir what caliber do you need? � For a revolver� usually followed by,� you know the one I bought from you at the gun show 2 years back.�

In the pre computer days. People who had there guns stolen and came in with a vague idea of when they bought it. and they need the serial no. for the police. You could spend hours on a project like that. (and we often did)

Some one coming in with little or know knowledge was treated with kid gloves. I have seen the owner of this shop call one of his friends to let a new customer shoot the gun he thinks he wants. With no guarantee that the customer will buy from his shop. I have seen him suggest that a customer with cash in hand go take a shooting course and try out several guns before buying. We would spend as along as needed to answer the same questions to new people everyday

But He who Knows It all, and will tell you all about it . Can get brought down fast.

Kind of like here.

lewis

There's always somebody ready to disagree with anything that anybody says. Reminds me of the old puzzle:

__________________
| Every statement in |
| this box is false. ... |
|_________________ |

Is it?

lewis,

Always good to hear from the other side of the counter ... sometimes what is heard is not so enlightening.

For instance, last weekend I was in a big chain sporting goods store that actually has a pretty darn good gun & hunting section. They also have an unusually good ammo selection for such a chain (e.g. they have the good taste to carry 16-ga. shotshells) so I asked if they had any 7x57 ammo for a friend who just bought one.

One clerk (middle-aged guy -- that is, he's still older than me) said, "No, we have that 7.62x39 stuff, though." Uh, thanks but no thanks.

To give credit where credit's due, a much younger clerk knew what I was talking about, complimented my friend on his good taste in cartridges, and confirmed that none was in stock...

Remember those rubber grip-adapters for revolvers? I drove to town � ninety-several miles � one 1955 weekend to (among other things) get a Pachmayr grip-adapter for my preWW2 S&W K-22. Went right to the biggest, best-stocked gun store in town.

"Sure." the clerk said and rummaged around in a deep drawer and came-up with a boxed grip-adapter. "Lemme see your gun."

As he loosened the grip-escutcheon screw and "attached" the grip-adapter, I noticed that the printing on the end of the box was "Colt New Service." With the possible exception of the Colt Single-Action, I couldn't think of a common revolver that had a grip that was less like the grip of a Smith & Wesson K-22.

"There you go."

You should've seen what he handed me. The adapter touched the frame of my K-22 only at its opposite ends, with enough space in between to sling a cat through. The grips barely held the tips of the copper attaching clip.

"After you've used it awhile, it'll fit perfectly," he assured me.

I knew better and said so. The bottom lip of the properly fitted grip-adapter on my S&W 38-44 Outdoorsman had been curled away from the toe of the grip for years but showed no inclination to conform through use. As well as I could tell, it was curled-away exactly as much after several years of heavy use as it had been when it was first attached.

I removed the Colt New Service grip-adapter and left that store.

I've had similar experiences at other gun stores � and at photography stores. If you don't know more about the product that you want than the clerk will try to tell you about something else, stay out of the store.

People with scope and mounting problems seem to gravitate toward me...maybe it's my deodorant or something.



Two that stand out in my mind both happened at my local range. Rifleman #1 had a new Winchester varmint gun in 22-250 a few benches down from me and was blamming away at 100 yds....had about 4 different boxes of factory ammo on his bench. Every shot or four would be accompanied by much swearing , gnashing of teeth and twisting of scope knobs. Blam, blam, blam, blam....swear, swear, swear, swear...twist, twist, twist, twist. Repeat. You get the picture.



Finally our aspiring marksman takes a cardboard box out of his pickup and sets it out at about 40 yards and fires one well placed shot. The boxed was uninjured in this attack. As it was clear he had no friggin' clue as to where these rounds were going, I decided to step in see what sort of difficulties our lad had himself into.



The gun had a nice matte finished Nikon 6.5-20 on it, but I noticed the windage turret wasn't occupying it's normal side on the scope. A quick glance confirmed that our hero had the scope rotated so the windage was on top and the elavation was on the left side....."The prefered method for a Cornfield Commando to mount his scope?" thought I? No...the truth was much simpler. Just stupidity, nothing more.



When I politely pointed it out, his response was "What f#@&%ing difference does that make? If I want the bullet to go up, the knob on the top is the one I turn". Eschewing a discussion about the internal mechanisms of scopes, I suggested he let me have a look. I rotated the scope, centered the windage and elevation and boresighted the gun at my 100 yard target. The first shot was within 1" of the target center. I told him he could take 'er from there and get it sighted precisely where he wanted, but he told me it was close enough to kill the mule deer he was heading out to hunt the next day in Wyoming.



Scary...but true.



Maybe I'll talk about the guy with the bent tube on his Nightforce 3.5-15X56 another time...it's to painful to think about right now. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> -Al

Al,
Rotating the scope 90 degrees is common practice on some rifles (788 Rem for instance) where the ejection angle causes the ejected case to hit the scope turret and fall back into the port. Often the trickiest part was trying to explain to the shooter that the jobs of the respective knobs had now changed.
"I brought my rifle in because it wouldn't eject and now it ejects fine but I can't sight it in", complains the slightly irate customer.
"What exactly is the problem you're having sighting in?", I query.
"Well, when I fired it, it hit a bit to the left. I moved it to the right and it hit high. Then I moved it down and it hit way to the right. So I moved it to the left again and it hit above the target. What gives?"
"the scope has been rotated in the rings. The left/right adjustment is now up and down."
"But it says left! If I turn it, it should move to the left!"
"Not any more. Now left is down and right is up."
" I don't see how that can work. It says left!"
"Maybe you should just come back in and we'll try a higher set of mounts instead."
"Won't that make it shoot high?" Whooee!!
Another memorable one was the rifle which, after glass bedding, kicked harder.
"How do you figure that?", I asked.
"just think about it", he replied," it's more solid in the stock now. There's no give. It kicks like a mule".
Sometimes parts requests were amusing simply because of quirks of terminology.
I always remember the guy who had a cracked armature on his 1200 shotgun. Also the fellow who was in need of a new ejaculator (As I continue to age I may find myself in the same boat!).
A classic was the fellow who called the store and got one of the co-owners, a transplanted Texan.
"Howdy" says the owner, "How can I help ya?".
" I was wondering if you knew where I could get a setter".
"Well now, I'm not sure about a setter but I know a fella who has some damn nice Brittanys".
"Brittanys? Isn't that a dog?"
" Yep. And a pretty nice one too. Not in the same class as my labs but not bad."
" What I'd like to know is, how is that going to help me with my .22?"
"Well now, what's your 22 got to do with it? Even my labs come up a bit short when it comes to gun repair."
" I really don't care about your damn dogs. What I want is the setter for the sight on my .22!"
Often, technical questions (like the headspace one for instance) are difficult to field just because what might make perfect sense to me is meaningless gabble to the customer. In many cases he has read an explanation of it in a magazine which, while mostly accurate, came up a little short as far as understandability (is that a word?) was concerned. So now I have to somehow try and substitute my explanation (which may not be any better) for his misconception.
As a gunsmith, one of the most difficult things handle is a request for a critique of someone else's work. Especially when it is an example of the customer's own.
I well remember on instance where a customer came in and, with considerable pride, opened up a hard gun case.
"What do you think of that?", he said, beaming proudly.
Looking at me from where it reposed in gray foam was a P17 with a "custom" stock. The stock wood appeared to be maple with a very high gloss finish. Even the runs were shiny. I say "looking at me" because the forend tip was carved into the makers interpretation of a bald eagle screaming defiance. The effect was more like a turkey buzzard choking on a bone.
I stared at this with my jaw clenched to hold back, what? Laughter? My lunch? I couldn't speak. Yet I knew some response was expected of me. I wanted to take a sip of coffee but didn't dare for fear I would choke! Finally I got myself under control enough to at least attempt speech.
"Well! That certainly is a stock!", I squeaked. His face lit up with a smile which was full of pride.
"I figured you'd like it", he grinned.
This was one of the few times I was glad tohear the phone ring. I kept that telemarketer talking for 15 minutes. GD

Ahh the memories�

Had a gun shop in the area owned by a good guy. But he had his elderly father behind the counter everyday. Not a paid employee mind you just old pop was retired and kind of at loose ends.
And he had 2 opinions on everything and would loudly tell them to you weather you asked them or not.
On more than one occasion I saw a customer walk in to the shop and ask ole pop if he had a certain gun. Would go something like this.

Hi sir, do you have the 11-87 12 ga?
AN 11-87??? I WOULDN�T HAVE ONE OF THOSE PIECES OF SH*T!!!
And then start in on how the 16 ga was better than any 12 ever built.
Meanwhile my friend would be running like mad out of the back past the 5 or 6 11-87 12ga. He had on the shelf to try to keep ole pop from running off another sale.

And if you agree with the 11-87 part, well it was any given gun any given day.

lewis

greydog I am LMAO I am just an average hunter shooter with 40yrs at the game and the one with the rotated scope happened to me with my hunting partner of 30yrs son who I sold a rem. 700 in 243 too and a burris signiture series scope mounted and sighted. Well some boso at a chain store told him a BSA bottom line scope was a better scope and he bought one and mounted it rotated 90 degrees after removing the properly mounted Burris. Five boxes of winchester supreme later someone at the range pointed out to him the scope was mounted wrong. Almost $100.00 of ammo gone! I have several other stories with the same young man in mention but due to the embarrassment of hunting with him I will stop here.

lewis,

Any chance you are from WV?

Dr Howell,
I am abashed. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> Perhaps my phraseology might be changed to reflect that I have a different opinion, as to the telephone, rather than to say that I disagree. It was an unthinking, and poor choice of words, and I shall henceforth strive to be more precise.
I do love the conundrum, however. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Whitetail

Nope all those stories were from NC but I shouldn't be a bit surprised that there is an ole pop in WV as well

lewis

I have had almost two beers, damned neer peed my pants on that one <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
I sure am glad I am a crane operator. People that call me seem to have some idea of what they are after, but they do call me in the middle of the night to drag crap off the HiWays & ByWays...

Pat

One day years ago as my grandmother was about to go into town, my grandfather asked her to pick up "a box of .22 shorts." You guessed it, she came back with twenty-two pair of underwear. She said it didn't make sense, but that's what he asked for.

A customer was picking up a new 243 and was holding forth in a gunshop in CT. He said there was no way he would pay $800 for a Kimber when he could get a Rem for less. The shop owner identified me as someone who had bought three Kimbers there that year. I went into a talk on free floated barrels, pillar bedding, crf etc. The new 243 owner said that Rem's shot good. We all agreed as a sale was being made.

Next the new 243 owner said that the new short magnums are no good. I said that they solve the headspace problem if you reload. My guess is that one was not understood.

So then the 243 buyer said that the 17 HMR is no good for deer. He said that you shoot them and they just stand there like nothing happened! He said he got the 17 for low noise.

At that point I left.

The supervisor of a state tree nursery near here had big-wig visitors coming and didn't want his crew in the way. So, early in the morning, he took 'em all out to a far-off section of the nursery to trim the lower limbs off a plantation of young trees. "Cut 'em all off four feet above the ground" was (a) what he told 'em to do and (b) what they did. When he checked on 'em at the end of the day, after his visitors were safely gone, he had a plantation of four-foot stumps.

A high-school shop teacher ordered an "18-inch bit" that he found on the government surplus list. He got it � but it wasn't what he expected. Instead of a shop-practical bit 18 inches long, he got (on a railroad flat car) a bit 18 inches in diameter (Navy surplus from a shipyard, IIRC).