Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Gunsmithing Convert 50 Cal Muzzle Loader to Cartridge?

I finally got one of the modern break-action inlines with 209 priming and exposed hammer. Every time I pull the breechplug to clean the thing I wonder if I could make a new "breechplug" that would accept a rimmed cartridge such as 50-70 or 50-110 or whatever would fit in there. Sounds like great fun to me! I would not want magnum power at all. It just sounds like fun to load it with big fat brass cartridges and full-caliber lead bullets instead of ramming a pistol bullet wrapped inside a plastic sabot from the muzzle.

Has anybody done this?

Is it illegal?

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An interesting idea. Cant wait to read some reply's.

Don't think most muzzle loader barrels are manufactured to take the pressure produced by smokeless powder. Except the Savage 10ML that is.

you would also probably have to re-register it as a smokeless powder firearm, and possibly as an AOW.

You might run into some problems witht he BATFE making a cartrige gun out of a ML.

I never said I want to run smokeless in it. Both the cartridges I mentioned, 50-70 and 50-110, are old blackpowder cartridges. However, I would try loading smokeless powders to blackpowder pressures.

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Re-register? It's not registered now. Registration is not required for long guns in my state. Is it in yours?

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Might be hard....arent they rimmed cartridges?

I have a JDJ barrel I had made for my encore in 50-70 and love it.
I shoot both black powder and smokeless in it ,but I use lead bullets that I make. I have also shot the 50 cal muzzle loader banded bullets that have a copper jacket or coating on them. they are awsome when you bust a buck they don't run far , maby 20 feet.you will like it whatever you do.

To make it into a centerfire, wouldn't you have to modify the firing pin.

I had one several years ago and it used a regular nipple. A No. 11 percussion cap was fitted over the nipplem but the firing pin was flat, and IIRC, about 1/8 in diameter.

I don't know whether or not you could modify this type of firing pin so that you could use it with a Boxer primed cartridge.

"I would try loading smokeless powders to blackpowder pressures."

How would you determine this? Another question is, are black powder cartridges and muzzle loader loads the same pressure for the same amount of powder and the same weight of bullet?

That breech plug is going to have the same amount of pressure against it as there is against the base of the bullet. I don't know if I would want my nose within 2 or 3 inches of that.

A few years ago, someone made a break open shotgun that would take inter-changable barrels, both rifle and shotgun. It think it was H & R or possibly New England arms.

It might be safer if you could find one of these and have a .50-70 or a 50-110 barrel made for it.

Or, get it with a shotgun barrel and have a rifle liner made for it.

It's probably doable. It would need chambering, and a firing pin engineered and built into the breech plug. I have no idea what the forward surface of the breech plug looks like. It would have to be flat and fit snugly against ones cartridge. As long as one stayed with black powder, contained pressure should be identical to its present loads.

I'd do some remote test firing though before bedding down on the bench with it.

One would have more WOW factor though by simply purchasing a spiffy Shiloh Sharps.

Registered meaning it would have to be serial numbered and transferred through an FFL.

You would be MANUFACTURING a cartrige firing weapon without a Manufacturers FFL.

AS I said. You might run into some problems with the BATFE.

Or as said. For the money, possible problems, and machining time, just get an Encore and have a barrel made.

I can manufactuer a rifle action for my personal use (LEGALLY) without going through all that B.S.

Buy an Encore and be done with it. Life is too short to make the easy hard. I can see some Janet Reno wannabe hanging your ass out as a domestic terrorist.

You didn't say what you have but it's probably no Encore and never will be. An Encore with a 50 MZ and 416 Rigby barrel set would do it for you. (Cast bullets in the 416)

it's not the pressure as much as how fast you get there. the muzzleloader steels are made to withstand slower, lower pressure. smokeless of any amount will build pressure MUCH faster and make a bomb out of your rifle.

And ,.....YOU ,....."Might" post a really coherent report about what .300" means, when doing an "Ex-Spurt" chambering job.

You sure jammed out and split on that one, and left everyone hanging.

What're you ( now that you've flunked basic machining metrology three times ) .....the internet ATF?

The man can do whatever thew hell he wants to , with HIS rifle, as long as he only does it once.

You are turning out to be a REAL disappointment, young man.

Mouthy, .....never expected that, back when you were in the bowl turning stage.

Clean up yer' act

GTC

Nobody has mentioned the little problem of ejector/extractor. Without that little item you would be knocking the brass out with a cleaning rod. That would make it a real PITA.

Not saying it can't be done but there are probably easier ways to do it. Interesting idea though.

I answered the thread, go look it up. While you're at it, stop hijacking other people's threads to take pot shots at me. If you have a problem. use the PM system like the rest of us.

I didn't fail anything. A&B did

The customer has a fully functioning well bult rifle, and we have 2 new barrels and a new reamer and gauges. Fail to see how we messed that up.

Back to the O.T. Yes, he can do it. He can do it as many times as he wants as long as it stays in his posession. BUT, if it is ever stolen, then he has a problem. Plus, with the ATF being as stringent as they have been the last couple years, why mess with it?

As I said. For time spent, money spent, ease of repairability, and general safety, an encore would be a better idea.

Probably a more complex problem would be the action itself. Some of these, Encore, H&R and some others, are designed to deal with cartridge pressures and strains. For the others, if you wanted to put a cartridge in the barrel and screw in a breech plug before firing, it might possibly done with some modifications mentioned above. If you would want to design a cartidge type rifle on one of the more typical less expensive actions, you would need to add a locking mechanism, something like underlugs and a cross bolt. you would probably have to put in a different hinge pin as well. Even black powder cartridges put very different strains on the action than a sealed breech muzzleloader. I really don't think you can do it without an almost ground up build. Not a gunsmith and don't pretend to be, just my opinion.
Bfly

wonder if it would be possible to build a cam lock or something on the back like the old twist open competition pistols.

Would have to have a fugly looking stock made for it.

With the right amount of time and money, you could make just about anything out of anything.