Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Africa Black Mamba Question.

oh yes the diffrent venom.John, if i see him again i will ask. i suspect he will say that the treatment stays the same. for the simple practical reason that more often than not the owner of the dog wasn't with the dog when it got bitten. so no idea what it was. come to think of it maybe this is one of the reasons he prefers a non discriminating treatment such as the electric method. treat s-bites with the wrong anti-venom and death is a sure thing. maybe this side steps that problem?

this is not limited to dogs/pets, i know he has treated cattle as well.

I have done a lot of hog hunting in Florida & its common for a dog to be treated with a special electroshock device. I have read several articles by US doctors that claim it doesn't work on humans. I also remember reading an article where a doctor or vet, not sure which, treated a lot of Indians in South American jungles with electroshock with almost 100% success. I was almost bitten by a 6 1/2' Diamondback Rattler in Florida. I shot the snake after it struck at me & have it mounted in my trophy room. With only 3 trips to SA I have never seen a snake, & would prefer to keep it that way. I have always been told to stay away from termite mounds. One area I hunted was full of termite mounds & the PH/owner of the concession stated many had contained Mamba's. He spent several years pouring gas on them & burning any snakes. He is deadly afraid of snakes so the story may be true.

shakari, tell you what i am going to drive to his practise quickly. i know he has a notice board with pictures of snakes. the footnotes are bilingual. i'll give feedback. i am from the n-west province.

john you have some good questions if i see him again i will ask

Ah, of course the snake will often not be identified. I didn't think of that.

Living close to the Arctic Circle, I have not had to worry much about poisonous reptiles! We have one poisonous snake here in Sweden, but its venom is not very potent -- barring an allergy, you are safe if you are bigger than a meadow vole!

John

been a great discussion....as i said to start with from my slightly above average understanding of how venom works(granted im far from an expert) i can not understand how the electrical shock works and i have never run across a single thing to truly explain to me why it may work.....lots on anecdotal evidence suggesting it might but nothing to tell me why.....because of this i aint convinced it works......HOWEVER if other treatment isnt available in the long run(or short run depending on snake species ) i dont see how your going to do any more damage by getting shocked and out in the bush i sure in the hell aint going to pass up such a treatment if its handy, as i said, i believe it beats the hell out of doing nothing at all...

rattler, you are dead right.

alright i am back from the vets practice. a yellow snake is Afrikaans for Cape Cobra. exactly the venom i don't care for. in my neck of the woods the cobra is second most common snake next to your friendly neighbourhood puff-adder.

Ok...thanks for the trouble and the info..!

Ingwe

Based on my foggy recollections of biochem, it seems likely that an electical current strong enough to denature the proteins in the venom would do the same to the proteins in your cells. However, some unstable proteins are quite easily denatured, so anything is possible!

Overall, I have to agree with rattler -- if there is no harm, pass me the cattle prod if I get bit!

John

Just conjecture on my part, but as has been implied, the electrical thing might have some validity with hemotoxins...if thats the case, besides breaking down certain protiens, could it also be breaking down some of the enzymes involved....

Or am I over thinking this, before having had any coffee this morning?

Ingwe

[quote=jpb]Based on my foggy recollections of biochem, it seems likely that an electical current strong enough to denature the proteins in the venom would do the same to the proteins in your cells. However, some unstable proteins are quite easily denatured, so anything is possible!

duh... you lost me, but it sounds good. oops now everybody knows my I.Q. or the lack thereof.lol.

your not necessarily over thinking it other than the fact the enzymes your referring to in hemotoxic snake venom are infact, just another protein aswell

Raking back through my physics lessons in about 19voetsak, I seem to remember that a flow of electrons would break up chains of protein..... but that's about all I remember about it and even that memory could be inaccurate. I guess it must be something like that though.

Dan,

I was up in your neck of the woods a little while ago on my way to wilton Valley. It was dry as hell.... hope you've had some rain since then!

True Dat!

I think I'll just go ahead and get some coffee and shut up.....

Ingwe

Shakari,

i believe you are absolutely correct, my question is, if the electrical charge breaks up the venom proteins, keeping mind a shot of venom from a good sized snake is about a half to full tablespoon or so in the case of a mamba, and that's alot of protein being broken down by the shock, so why arent the proteins in the surrounding, muscle, nervous and connective tissue also similarly destroyed?

Botswana, April 1990.
Our long dreamed of first safari. My Dad and I hunting 2 x 1, with my wife along as observer.
The wife has a morbid fear of snakes, so the booking agent assured her it would be winter and we wouldn't see a single snake.
On arrival in Kasane, the head of safari co assures her it's winter and we wouldn't see a single snake.
Next day meet the PH and he assures her it's winter and we won't see a single snake.

Late afternoon about the 5th day, and we're in our usual riding positions: Ronnie driving with Dad next to him in the cab, me in the middle of the bench seat behind the cab with trackers Malebung and Junior on either side, and the wife behind us on the spare tire. Did I mention she's a keeper?
We;re on a well worn piece of road doing about 30 when I catch a glimpse of what looks like the slate grey head of a snake whiz past less than a foot from the side of the truck at OUR EYE LEVEL!
Before I can say, "Was that a snake?" There's an explosion of Tswana on both sides of me. Ronnie jams on the brakes, a quick and highly agitated discussion ensues, the wife asks me what's going on, and we back up to get a good look. We catch a glimpse of the tail disappearing into the grass as Ronnie says, "Mamba, bloody big one too.".

Luckily, she never saw it, and 3 years went by before I told her that she had passed within a foot of the head of a large black mamba.

Not sure she believes me to this day.

Don't worry, it's winter and you won't see a single snake.
Pete

You are right about the controversy and anecdotal stories. I did see a good expos� on the subject a few years back on Discovery or a similar channel. The MD's and researchers conclude the the bites that were "successfully" treated with shock were likely the result of "dry" bites - no significant envenomation.

Considering that our own flesh-skin, musculature, etc- is largely protein, for the electroshock therapy to work as advertised in breaking the venom protein chain, it would turn our bodies to jelly at the same time. Instead, it just will burn the crap out of you.

However, if a mamba, cobra, gaboon viper, or any such thing tags me in the bush, feel free to fry me, get the witch doctor, and the vodka and OJ if the medivac isn't handy.

OK...I can't shut up just yet

I was wondering the same thing...

Perhaps because the electrical current isnt breaking down cell walls like hemotoxin does, the cells are capable of restoring the protiens in them that are destroyed by the electricity. And not undergoing the necrosis that hemotoxin induces....??

As you said, Ive looked at this a number of times, and no one has ever tried to explain how it really works...


Ingwe

You will find out who your true friends are if you need help shaving your junk...

John

Now THAT makes perfect sense..

I think I'll leave it at that!!

Give it a BIG +1 !!!

Ingwe

Like the old American joke circulating when cut and suction was the "preferred" snake bite treatment....

What did the Dr. say?


" He said you are gonna die...."



Ingwe