Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns 357 Shot loads for self defense?

I did not. I was just saying


Who is jpw?

You guys post a lot of irrelevant stuff.
Must not have any experience with .357 snake shot, much less personal defense loads.

Since I have spent a lot of time with a .357 magnum caliber and snake shot loads, as well as the .44 magnum caliber with snake shot loads, I can tell you that I would NOT bet my life on them against an attacker, mugger, carjacker etc.

The .357 mag snake shot is fine but I prefer the .44mag snake shot, especially against big rattle snakes, it is a lot more "kick in the arse" compared to the .357 mag load.

I would love to see some documentation of anything, even a stinking, usually worthless newspaper article of anyone every being killed with a snake shot load. Could it happen? Absolutely, I have no doubt that a near contact wound through the eye socket would be lethal or even a fluke pellet into a surface vein that causes an embolism but to have an instant stop based on the terminal effects of a 1/4oz of #8 at 10feet has my BS meter pegged at the max.

And working in the bean fields we had tons of snakes that would go into the drying beans to get the mice. There were days where if it went more than an hour without finding a snake you started to get really paranoid. My preference was for a SW 63, nice and light and the #12 shot would not penetrate a leather boot or damage the belts on the equipment (snakes often got thrown up onto the conveyor belts when a bundle of beans was thrown up and that tended to be very exciting until it was resolved). And I know the #12 wont penetrate a boot because I have shot snakes between my legs and seen the scuffs on the top of my boot afterwards.

I agree, Tonk. I said to not use the .357 snake loads for defense.

I gave an example of someone who did use them because he did not want to kill someone, or to have a bullet penetrate the walls of his domicile. In reality, when he was confronted with a burglar in his bedroom and shot him with a snake load, the shot all went through almost one hole in his sternum, where the abdominal tissue is thin, and took out the burglar's heart, killing him instantly. Things could have worked out entirely differently. Better to use a 125-gr .38 +P in the house.

How close was he? Most of the experiments in 38/.357 spread at least an inch per foot.

And for having medical school of some sort can you explain why there is abdominal tissue in his sternum? From the xypoid process to the manubrium is bone and the heart lies within the thorax. The only muscles of any nature are the intercostal muscles between the ribs. The only way to go through abdominal tissue to the heart would be to punch from below the xyphoid process, go through the diaphram and into the heart, requiring several inches of penetration.

I could see it possible on an angled contact shot, maybe you buddy was laying in bed and shot up into someone leaning over him, but nothing even close to ten feet.

That's quite alright with me, I did bring up ask about Strasbourg, you called me on it and I responded; at least acknowledge that. Now I ask you again (we do this dance all the time) to respond to my question on the Hi Power thread. You're so smart, sack up and debate me on that one.

Push on your own abdomin just below the sternum, to see how soft it is.

While we are on the subject of birdshot, let me dispell a few more erroneous speculations I saw in this thread.

1. #2 shot is bird shot. It is for geese and turkey.
My 32-inch SxS, tuned for #2 lead shot, would fold up a duck at 70 yards. That is why guides and market hunters used such guns, to kill geese and ducks cleanly and kill cripples wounded by their clients.

2. A full choked shotgun, firing #6 shot at a 3/4 inch plywood board at 20 feet, will blow a 2-inch diameter hole through the plywood, where about 85% of the shot hits. The other 40 pellets or so will be scattered in about an 8 inch circle around this hole.

Don't hide behind a reversal of letters and a missing number John(jwp475), or run from youe intent when you posted the word "tupperware."

I was just saying tupperware make a nice salad bowl. Just saying

Lee - What in the hell are you talking about? In what world is this a response to my post? I'm asking you to jump on another thread and talk about a statement you made. I have NEVER, not once shy'd away from any question you have ever asked me. So just slip over there and answer the questions.

You always complain that everyone just changes the subject and picks on you, so here's your chance for real debate.

jwp45 is me writing jpw475 without checking what I was writing. Again, your intent is noted whether you want to be honest about it or not.

NO!


Produce the picture of the Model 70 you claim to own that was manufactured in SC...NOW.

Exactly lee, that "soft spot" is usually defined as the margin of your intercostal arch and that is below you xyphoid process, inches below your heart. Penetration with anything there has the ability to seriously screw up your diaphram, abdominal aorta, pancreas, left lobe of the liver or even possibly a spleen depending on the angle, but your not going to get to your heart going that route without going from below and with that I will now say your medical school is a fraud also considering any of the above information is junior college anatomy stuff.

Regarding birdshot I aleady said it could cover all the way up to 0 or 00buck since a few have used it for geese. Since we were talking about .357 snake shot it is usually using #7 1/2 or even #6 in some homemade stuff it seemed appropriate to base the discussion on that. I also already said I have no doubt #2 or a BB load would easily fold a dog and would be a great choice. Also I have no doubts about your example regarding the choked shotgun, but I fail to see any connection between a rifled barrel throwing a 1/4oz of shot and a fully choked shotgun which I agree would be devasting anytime a shot charge is even remotely intact when it hits the target.

I'd be curious to know this as well. Very nice! Thanks

varmintsinc, you are not qualified to pass judgement on my medical school classes (biochemistry and genetics, not gross anatomy), my engineering, or my expertise with any firearms.

But you do reluctantly admit the possibility of snake shot killing someone as I described. Again, go shoot some into your favorite dead animal at close range for your own personal edification.

I bought them from some one on the internet and I do not know who made them, sorry

Just giving you a hard time. Actually we had a gunshop owner here that pronounced it like that. Always made me chuckle.

I see Liar24 is still showing his stupidity.

Just because you took some science classes at college does not mean you went to medical school. I took constitutional law as part of a BS in Criminology (Fresno State 1992 in case your interested) but that does not mean I went to law school. Even an LVN or paramedic school requires basic biology, anatomy, chemistry and physiology as prerequisites, you cant just jump into medical school and take classes you want to take. You were grossly mistaken on basic placement of the cardiovascular system and are trying to ignore it, insinuating that basic anatomy is somehow not necessary for your medical schooling. You again got caught on something and are now trying your best to ignore it and change the subject. I have never questioned your engineering because I readily admit I know nothing about it, only that you seem to have an extremely productive career based on the claims you have made; claims that engineers I know say would require you to be about 200 years old to have the time to do it all. Regarding firearms all I have ever asked is that you back up your claims regarding your AMU fiasco as well as a photo of the model 70 that apparently only you and a few close friends own.

Again your reading comprehension skills are horrible. In no way did I redundently admit snake shot could kill in the manner you described. I am saying a contact shot to the eye or between the ribs is the only way to make it work, not at ten feet as you described. Only in your world are a contact shot and ten feet redundent. I have shot at least 50-100 snakes with snake shot, about half from the .38/357 and I know it is great on snakes at under 5 feet, past that it gets pretty iffy based on pattern and penetration and most will get away. The only thing I agreed with you on is that a full choked shotgun with #2 would be a devastating load at close range and would no doubt cause unrepairable damage to someone.

I always said degrees in criminology were BS.