|
|
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 3,943
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 3,943 |
Coming soon - Blaser Rifles that will be as accurate as the average Savage rifle! Now I think you are just asking for too much on that one.....
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 76
Campfire Greenhorn
|
|
Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 76 |
I just returned last night from Texas where a few gun writers were able to shoot the new Blaser R8 rifle. What they told me is that there are some copyright issues to work out here in the U. S. regarding the name for the ammo. Blaser vs Blazer. That is on track to be solved and they will launch the ammo here sometime later this year. I did get a chance to check out the .375 Blaser while I was in Sweden this past fall and I liked it.
I guess we will see how well any of the cartridges will do in the U.S.
By the way, I don�t have any inclination to get into an internet pissing contest, but those of you who don�t think much of the accuracy of the Blaser, probably have not used them much. In my experience the rifles are very accurate. I have tested several in multiple cartridges over the past few years and they have all be exceptionally accurate. That includes both the R93 and the K95 single shot.
I have a K95 with an octagon barrel in .243 Winchester. By rights a single shot with an octagon barrel should not shoot, but this is an honest � inch rifle. The R93 I tested for some NRA articles in .223 Remington, .300 Winchester and .375 H&H is an honest sub MOA gun with five, five shot groups in any of the cartridges. With select loads it�s even better. The skinny barrel .223 will put handloads in one ragged hole at 100 yards. I shot another .300 Winchester quite a bit on a range in Africa a couple of years back with Norma 200 grain Oryx loads and was getting sub-inch groups at 200 yards. I think that�s pretty good for any factory rifle.
With the several of the new R8 rifles I shot sub MOA groups out to 600 yards earlier this week. I had one 5 shot group at 600 yards with a .300 Winchester that was about four inches. That was at the end of the day after every other writer had shot the gun. The bore had a few hundred rounds through it without cleaning and the barrel was too hot to touch. Probably not the best conditions. I had several 100 yard groups with a .308 and a couple of different Federal factory loads that were close to half-inch. I shot Federal ammo in a .22-250 at 300 yards and all my groups were sub MOA.
They might be pricy, but Blasers will shoot.
Bryce
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 22,884
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 22,884 |
Thanks for sharing Mr. Towsley. We appreciate your insider insight on this board. I wish you'd post more.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 14,211
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 14,211 |
I just returned last night from Texas where a few gun writers were able to shoot the new Blaser R8 rifle. What they told me is that there are some copyright issues to work out here in the U. S. regarding the name for the ammo. Blaser vs Blazer. That is on track to be solved and they will launch the ammo here sometime later this year. I did get a chance to check out the .375 Blaser while I was in Sweden this past fall and I liked it.
I guess we will see how well any of the cartridges will do in the U.S.
By the way, I don�t have any inclination to get into an internet pissing contest, but those of you who don�t think much of the accuracy of the Blaser, probably have not used them much. In my experience the rifles are very accurate. I have tested several in multiple cartridges over the past few years and they have all be exceptionally accurate. That includes both the R93 and the K95 single shot.
I have a K95 with an octagon barrel in .243 Winchester. By rights a single shot with an octagon barrel should not shoot, but this is an honest � inch rifle. The R93 I tested for some NRA articles in .223 Remington, .300 Winchester and .375 H&H is an honest sub MOA gun with five, five shot groups in any of the cartridges. With select loads it�s even better. The skinny barrel .223 will put handloads in one ragged hole at 100 yards. I shot another .300 Winchester quite a bit on a range in Africa a couple of years back with Norma 200 grain Oryx loads and was getting sub-inch groups at 200 yards. I think that�s pretty good for any factory rifle.
With the several of the new R8 rifles I shot sub MOA groups out to 600 yards earlier this week. I had one 5 shot group at 600 yards with a .300 Winchester that was about four inches. That was at the end of the day after every other writer had shot the gun. The bore had a few hundred rounds through it without cleaning and the barrel was too hot to touch. Probably not the best conditions. I had several 100 yard groups with a .308 and a couple of different Federal factory loads that were close to half-inch. I shot Federal ammo in a .22-250 at 300 yards and all my groups were sub MOA.
They might be pricy, but Blasers will shoot.
Bryce
Splain your self.Why by rights ,would a single shot rifle with an octagon barrel not shoot??????I have quite a few Highwalls(original) that easily do that.(Sub inch groups).Not trying to be a smart ass,I don't understand why you made that statement,please clarify.Thanks,Huntz
Its all right to be white!!
Stupidity left unattended will run rampant
Don't argue with stupid people, They will drag you down to their level and then win by experience
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 76
Campfire Greenhorn
|
|
Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 76 |
Sure,
In my experience modern single shot rifles are usually not as accurate as some other rifle styles. There are always exceptions, I.E. my statement about not wanting to get in a pissing contest.
Also in my experience, modern octagon barrels, which tend to be a lot thinner than what is probably on your High Wall also do not shoot as accurately on average as similar diameter round barrels. In fact that came subject up in conversation with several experienced custom gun makers I recently had dinner with and to a man they all agreed with that premise. What may make the difference with the Blaser is because they CNC grind the flats on barrels, rather than milling. They say it induces fewer stress problems and the evidence, at least with my rifle, says they are right.
The high walls, rolling blocks, Sharps, etc. are usually much different rifles. Most are chambered for low intensity cartridges and have massive barrels and frames. I have reproductions of all of them and have shot several original rifles and agree that they can be very accurate.
Bryce
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 14,211
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 14,211 |
Thanks for your explanation.I dont have any modern guns with octagon.I like the looks of the Blaser`s,just cant afford one.Huntz
Its all right to be white!!
Stupidity left unattended will run rampant
Don't argue with stupid people, They will drag you down to their level and then win by experience
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,978
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,978 |
UMT...
With all due respect, your expectations of octagon barreled rifles sure is different than mine...
This quote especially got me-
"By rights a single shot with an octagon barrel should not shoot. "
Browning/Mirouku has been making B-78,and 1885 high wall and low wall rifles that shoot well for over 30 years now. Not to mention Shiloh , C Sharps and a HOST of other makers..
I've owned about a dozen Brownings with octagon barrels and they shot like a house afire. I have owned those guns in 22 hornet, 223 ,22-250 ,243, 25-06 and .270.
I have never had trouble getting ANY of them to shoot 1/2" groups with a good load- sometimes with cheap factory ammo. The 1885 low walls have been especially accurate given the fact they aonly weigh 6.5 lbs and have external hammers.
I've also owned quite a few Shilohs, Pedersolis ,and Uberti replicas in 1885 and 74 sharps replicas. I shot NRA BPCR for years using Shilosh and shot into a Master Classification using an off the shelf Pedersoli. They all shot very well, too. No trick to get 1 MOA groups with a good jacketed bullet load if you can shoot the rifle well enough to do it..
My suggestion to you would be to get a sample of the new 1885 Winchester Low wall rifles. If you give that rifle as fair of a shake as you have the Blaser you tested, I think you will be amazed at how well it shoots.
Last edited by jim62; 01/07/10.
To all gunmaker critics-
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.."- Teddy Roosevelt
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 76
Campfire Greenhorn
|
|
Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 76 |
In fact I have shot several of the new Winchester reproduction High Wall rifles. Perhaps you didn�t read my second posting?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,978
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,978 |
I did ,sir..
And you were not specific with regards to the actual models, calibers or performance of the guns you may have shot in the past..
You merely claimed the accuracy of the Blaser to be superior.
And as I have said.. based my on own actual (and not inconsiderable)experience with Octagon barrels both factory and custom chmabered in many cartriges seems the exact opposite of yours.
And based on my actual experience with the other rifles I mentioned, I feel that there is nothing particularly special or unique with regards to the accuracy of the Blaser rifle you tested. It can be equaled by several models of currently available single shots (with octagon barrels) at a fraction of it's price.
Last edited by jim62; 01/07/10.
To all gunmaker critics-
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.."- Teddy Roosevelt
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 21,810
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 21,810 |
I seem to recall that when the 44 Magnum was introduced, Norma ammunition had a higher performance than US made ammo. People were confused why domestic ammo underperformed the European loads. Eventually, it turned out that European test protocols were different and that the Norma loaded 44 Magnum ammo exceeded the US made loads by 15%. Toady, their loads are equal.
Could this be a similar situation?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 76
Campfire Greenhorn
|
|
Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 76 |
This is that predictable �pissing contest� I alluded to earlier. Sorry, but I am too busy to play your game.
DakotaDeer wondered why I don�t post more. This is why.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 7,075
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 7,075 |
Bryce,
You comments are always welcome but you cannot please everyone. Keep the facts coming as yuou see them, and let the experts determine their own facts.
That is why we don't all buy the same beer anyway.
John
When truth is ignored, it does not change an untruth from remaining a lie.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,578
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,578 |
Bryce--
Let me echo how much I appreciate you taking the time to share first hand experience when the rest of us can do little more than speculate, theorize, and nit-pick.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,978
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,978 |
No "pissing contest" at all Bryce..
What did you expect?
The fact is that anyone- writer or not, who makes a generalized statement like for example - octagon barrels generally don't shoot as well as round barrels- then you'd better be able to back it up.
It's just that my ACTUAL EXPERIENCE with the accuracy of octagon barrels- either factory or custom -tells me different.
I am sorry your apprently fragile ego can't deal with that.
Merely getting published in print magazine does not automatically make someone the arbitor of all wisdom,experience or knowledge in the universe.
A fact lost on many of them..
Last edited by jim62; 01/08/10.
To all gunmaker critics-
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.."- Teddy Roosevelt
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,578
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,578 |
Which is why octagon barrel rule the world of competition shooting.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,978
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,978 |
Utah.
That does not mean octagon barrels are any LESS accurate than round barrels..
Anymore than a synthetic stock is "more accruate" than a properly bedded wood stock on a target rifle.
BR and other centerfire target shooters burn out enough barrels that COST plays a factor as well.
Octagoning a barrel is largely COSMETIC to most folks.. If it cost'more money -even if it does not HURT anything- if adds nothing to the accuracy of the gun it generally not get done on a modern target rifle..
A properly contoured, chambered and fitted octagon barrel will cost nearly TWICE what an average orund barel cost, all other things being equal..Octagon barrels are pain to index and fit properly compared to a round barrel. It costs extra $$.
Most serious bench rest shooters I know would rather use the $$ buying an extra barrel blanks as they tend to buy them and fit them to a rifle in groups(the smart ones at least) and sort the "hummers"(shooters) from the average tubes..
They would simply rather spend the $$ on something other than the shape of the barrel.. And, if performance VS cost is important, I would chose a round barrel for a BR rifle as well.
It still does not mean across the board that octagon barrels are any less accurate all other things being equal.. Which was my real bone to pick with UMT's comment.
Last edited by jim62; 01/08/10.
To all gunmaker critics-
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.."- Teddy Roosevelt
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,578
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,578 |
You missed the fundamental point of Bryce's post. His statement about the .243 was true--if most people envision a .5 MOA rifle design, a octagon barreled single shot is not the first thing that comes to mind.
So rather than engage the breadth of his experience in a collegial manner, you nit-picked a turn of phrase and probably yet again ran him off.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,978
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,978 |
FWIW, I have enjoyed some of his writing in the past as well.
And I might add that I PAID for the privilege to read it in magazines..
I will not however, give up my right to to voice a considered opinion based on my own experience just to avoid offending someone ..
Writer or not..
To all gunmaker critics-
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.."- Teddy Roosevelt
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,407
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,407 |
About the new Blaser ammo. We already tested in France with Blaser Rifle. Velocity was rather deceptive no more than "standard well known magnum calibers" sometimes less. In the new catalog were they present the new R8 rifle they give velocities:
7mm Blaser:140grs AC 960m/s 3150fps
300Blaser: 165grs CPD (sort of Partition bullet:950m/s 3116fps
300Blaser: 185grs TTSX: 920m/s 3050fps
338Blaser: 210grs TTSX: 900m/s 2952fps
338Blaser: 200grs AC: 920m/s 3050fps
375Blaser: 270grs TSX: 840m/s 2755fps
In the real world with Blaser barrels, brand new, we got lower velocities that i could give you tomorrow cause my data are at the office tonight. If you want to best "old magnums" you'll be obliged to handload.
Accuracy was impressive.
Experience is a lantern, carried in our back, only lightening already walked path. (Confucius)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,054
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,054 |
I have been following this thread for a while now without comment, but now I will:
Yawn.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
|
|
|
|
|
596 members (1234, 12344mag, 163bc, 10gaugemag, 17CalFan, 10Glocks, 63 invisible),
2,148
guests, and
1,116
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,190,729
Posts18,457,475
Members73,909
| |
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|
