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I'll keep this real short, but maybe not so sweet....


There is no way in HELL you can try to remotely equate the four examples you gave to what a LEO experiences... on a daily basis. If those folks don't show up to honor their fallen co-workers that's their problem. Don't fault the police community because they are a close knit family.

Hell I work in an aluminum foundry. I'm one furnace explosion away from becomming a crispy critter, one gas leak away from having my lungs boil out of my chest. No way near the exposure the men in blue have to face every day. I wouldn't do their job if you doubled my pay.

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Did a lot of Funeral details as an NCO, most of them right up in Lakewood, CO at the VA Cemetary, There usually was quite a number of folks there, and a lot of the times you would see Police Officer's on duty show up to pay respect's. Alot of the times, family would run off folsk they don't know, so I believe it should be up to the family. I have no problem honor Civili Servants that protect our lives Daily, Fireman, Policemen, Service members, for what it is worth djs, there is no Service member Union.


Back in the heartland, Thank God!



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Originally Posted by AJ300MAG
I'll keep this real short, but maybe not so sweet....


There is no way in HELL you can try to remotely equate the four examples you gave to what a LEO experiences... on a daily basis. If those folks don't show up to honor their fallen co-workers that's their problem. Don't fault the police community because they are a close knit family.

Hell I work in an aluminum foundry. I'm one furnace explosion away from becomming a crispy critter, one gas leak away from having my lungs boil out of my chest. No way near the exposure the men in blue have to face every day. I wouldn't do their job if you doubled my pay.


Police officers do have a difficult job, with lots of stress - I don't disparage them; I do respect the job they do. When they pull over a motorist at night, they do not know whether it is a doctor or nurse going home after a long day in the Emergency Room or a guy who just robbed and shot a 7/11 cashier.

All I am saying is that they should be more considerate of the citizens who are trying to go about their daily business and may have an emergency of their own. Long motorcades could be broken up into smaller ones, so the taxpayers do not loose 2 hours on a busy interstate.

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The cop lost his life. Two hours of my time doesn't come close to the sacrifice he made.

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Originally Posted by Kamerad_Les
Did a lot of Funeral details as an NCO, most of them right up in Lakewood, CO at the VA Cemetary, There usually was quite a number of folks there, and a lot of the times you would see Police Officer's on duty show up to pay respect's. Alot of the times, family would run off folsk they don't know, so I believe it should be up to the family. I have no problem honor Civili Servants that protect our lives Daily, Fireman, Policemen, Service members, for what it is worth djs, there is no Service member Union.


I have worked with the military and am well aware there is no Service union. Service remembers (like police officers) also have stressful occupations, coupled in many cases with long separation from family. They too deserve more people at their funerals.

In warm weather, I used to go for lunch walks through Arlington Cemetery. Generally, I�d only see a dozen or fewer attendees at funerals (unless the person was well-known). Other than the military honor guard, only family members are often seen. These veterans, who are aged, often have only 1-2 in attendance and sometimes no family members present. So that no one is buried alone, there are about 60-70 women (called Arlington Ladies) volunteers who make sure that everyone has someone at their funeral.

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Mine aren't buried so grandly, they are still in France. Family is one thing, have YOU been there? I have, as a soldier and a cop.


George Orwell was a Prophet, not a novelist. Read 1984 and then look around you!

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I've dedicated my entire life being a firefighter. I've lost several comrades in my 32 year venture. Cops included. Some of you [bleep] have no clue what you're even talking about.

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Originally Posted by AJ300MAG
The cop lost his life. Two hours of my time doesn't come close to the sacrifice he made.


There it is, but in certain self centered universes it makes no difference.


George Orwell was a Prophet, not a novelist. Read 1984 and then look around you!

Old cat turd!

"Some men just need killing." ~ Clay Allison.

I am too old to fight but I can still pull a trigger. ~ Me


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Originally Posted by AJ300MAG
The cop lost his life. Two hours of my time doesn't come close to the sacrifice he made.


2 hours times (perhaps) 20,000 cars (tied up in traffic is more than two hours of congestion.

In 1995, the police closed the Woodrow Wilson Bridge over the Potomac River for 8 hours (not a funeral, but shows how congestion occurs) and the backup extended around the Beltway, North on I-95 and onto the Baltimore Beltway - that is 4-6 lanes of traffic 40 miles long. How much inconvenience did the folks whose rush hour drive extended past midnight experience?

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I am sorry for the STFU post, it was uncalled for and uncivilized. My apologies to all concerned and djs in particular.

It is a very emotionally charged issue for me. It is just a heartbeat away for either my Daughter or Son and I worry a LOT! We also will do honor guard and escort for any fallen service member or other .gov worker here FREE at the officers own expense. If all you can think about is the almighty dollar or a bit of inconvenience I feel sorry for you.


George Orwell was a Prophet, not a novelist. Read 1984 and then look around you!

Old cat turd!

"Some men just need killing." ~ Clay Allison.

I am too old to fight but I can still pull a trigger. ~ Me


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Shutting down DC ain't such a bad thing IMHO. smile smile smile


George Orwell was a Prophet, not a novelist. Read 1984 and then look around you!

Old cat turd!

"Some men just need killing." ~ Clay Allison.

I am too old to fight but I can still pull a trigger. ~ Me


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I can't speak for my Canadian Brothers but in my department, travel expenses and such are out of pocket. The taxpayers don't foot that bill. As for time off, same thing. Coppers volunteer their time to attend while others in neighboring jurisdictions cover for their grieving brethren.


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Originally Posted by T LEE
Mine aren't buried so grandly, they are still in France. Family is one thing, have YOU been there? I have, as a soldier and a cop.


No TLEE, I have not been there. I am totally deaf in one ear and 50% deaf in the other, as well as having sight issues.

In college, I applied to ROTC and was rejected. I applied to Air Force, Army and Navy OCS and was rejected by each, in that order. I applied to Marine PLC and was rejected. Finally, I tried to enlist and was rejected.

My wife�s uncle flew P-38�s and was shot down over the French/German border in 1944. No remains, no burial. My mother�s family lost several members during WW1 and one in WW2. They were repatriated and are in Arlington. My father�s family also hade members killed in the service (some in combat and some in training).

I don�t resent police officers or firemen participating in public funerals of fallen members, but I do believe they should be more considerate of the general public and not place themselves above others.

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Thats the problem, they aren't placing themselves above others, guess what happens in Colorado if you decide to bypass ANY funeral, it is about a 500.00 ticket. Good God man, you have absolutely no clue. crazy


Back in the heartland, Thank God!



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Originally Posted by Batchief909
I've dedicated my entire life being a firefighter. I've lost several comrades in my 32 year venture. Cops included. Some of you [bleep] have no clue what you're even talking about.


In college, I was a US Forest Service Smokejumper for several seasons. I've fought many fires (never had water, trucks, hoses and other such luxuries; just a shovel and Pulaski. We lost good men in airplane crashes, jump accidents, falling out of trees on landing, and fire blowups. Additionally, we had a number of injuries (broken legs and ankles, principally) and expected 9-10 injuries for a 50 man unit (in Idaho) during the 2 month fire season.

I don't know what regular firefighters face, but it is probably a lot rarer for them to have to escape a fire moving at 50 mph than it is for wild land fire fighters.



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Yeah, they just have to go into a burning building that may or may not collapse while they are in there, fought wild fires, every summer up at Fort Lewis we had guys that had to go to Montana and Idaho to assist in the Wildfire fight, there is NO comparison. Les


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Originally Posted by djs
I don�t resent police officers or firemen participating in public funerals of fallen members, but I do believe they should be more considerate of the general public and not place themselves above others.

djs, I think that you are just

[Linked Image]

I don't think you will persuade many that a traffic jam is really worth much attention compared to the loss to society of somebody that deliberately put themselves at risk to help others.

Just my opinion -- worth no more than anybody else's.

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I thank all of you for your input and thoughts.

I appreciate your thoughtful insights.

I, without a doubt, have learned more about the facts - and maybe even more importantly - the feelings - and the reason behind these emotions. I have a greater understanding - now.

My query came about as the result of a student question directed to me. I had opinions - but no real answers.

It was a complicated question - and it lead to a class-room discussion.

Use of tax-payer funds came up.
Use of police time came up.
Use of resources came up.
"How much is enough" came up. If 4000 is good - would 8000 be better?
Honouring our bravest came up.
Helping families grieve came up.
The issue of "respect" came up.
The issue of service" was discussed.

Most of the conversation, and the most animated discussions in the classroom - revolved around the difference between how the dead Canadian soldiers families were being treated - in comparison to a fallen police-officer - and the reasons behind just why that might be.

Sensitive topic - no doubt.

Thank you for your input.

I thought I could count on you guys.

You didn't disappoint.


Brian

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http://ottawa.ctv.ca/servlet/an/loc...apnik_Funeral_100107/20100107?hub=Ottawa (Photos attached in this link)

Fallen officer remembered for his dedication to the force

Updated: Thu Jan. 07 2010 16:32:55

ctvottawa.ca

The family of fallen Ottawa Police Const. Eric Czapnik wiped away tears as friends and colleagues remembered him for his dedication to the force, as well as his love to eat pickles.

"Eric lost his life because of a senseless act," said Ottawa Police Chief Vern White, who spoke of Czapnik's dedication to the force.

White described Czapnik as a man of honour who served his community with a sense of pride. He said his death has affected everyone: his family, his colleagues and the community.

As White spoke, a police officer's hat sat atop Czapnik's coffin which was draped with a police flag in front of thousands in attendance at the Ottawa Civic Centre on Thursday.

Son remembers his father

Czapnik's step-son echoed White's sentiment, remembering how proud his father was to wear his uniform.

Luckasz Galaska said he was thankful for the time he had with his father, and all the things Czapnik taught him.

"Growing up and watching him with my siblings -- my brother and my sister, and now my baby brother -- and seeing all the changes he has gone through through the years, without any words ever needing to be spoken, I have learned what kind of a father I want to be," he said.

"The last few days, we have shed a million tears and have felt our hearts break even more."

Proud father of four

Czapnik leaves behind a wife and four children. He was a proud father who joined the Ottawa police force late in life.

His colleagues described him as a dedicated police officer who loved working in the community - something he said called living his dream.

A close family friend told CTV Ottawa his family is still struggling to come to terms with his death, especially his children. His three-year-old son still calls for his father every time the front door opens.

'A hero'

Ontario premier Dalton McGuinty spoke of how much police officers give to their community.

"On behalf of millions of people, I am here to say how sorry we are for your loss," McGuinty said.

"I wish that words could take away your pain, but I know that they can't and they can't replace your brother, your son, your husband, your father."

He finished by saying that Czapnik would be forever remembered as a hero.

Solemn tribute

The funeral service followed a solemn parade of more than 4,000 police officers marching through the streets of Ottawa, in an emotional display of thousands of red and black uniforms flowing along the streets of Ottawa.

The officers, as well as first responders, including paramedics and firefighters, marched behind a hearse carrying the casket of Czapnik, 51, who was stabbed to death in an attack outside the Civic Campus of the Ottawa Hospital on Dec. 29.

He was sitting in his police cruiser filling out paperwork on an unrelated, low-risk call at the time of the attack.

Nearby paramedics were first on the scene. They restrained the suspect, and desperately tried to save Czapnik, who was pronounced dead a short time later.

Suspended RCMP officer Kevin Gregson is charged with first-degree murder in his death. Gregson's lawyer said his client's mental health will be argued in his defence. His next court appearance is scheduled for Jan. 19.

Tragedy felt by many

Police officers from across Canada and the United States were in Ottawa to offer their support.

Toronto Police Chief Bill Blair said although the tragedy happened in Ottawa, it's a traumatic event for police officers everywhere.

"The reason we're here is to demonstrate first of all our respects and our condolences for the fallen officer and also our relationship and kindred care for the officers of the Ottawa Police Service, for the City of Ottawa because the citizens have lost one of their public servants," Blair told CTV News Channel.

An American honour guard from the sheriff's office in Syracuse agreed, noting the tragedy affects everyone in the profession.

He said borders are merely thin blue lines separating provinces, states and countries. When a police officer is killed, everyone is affected.

Czapnik is the first Ottawa police officer to be killed on the job since 1983.

A private burial will follow the funeral at the Beechwood Cemetery. A private reception for his family and members of the police force will be held at the Aberdeen Pavilion later this afternoon.


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a PO that spent his career patroling the mean streets of bad neighborhoods,trying to make a difference and staying honest deserves a little extra reverence,the suburban cop that spent his carreer writing tickets at the mall?not so much.

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